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>How easy is it for end-users to replace the clutch in that off-warranty Civic? For that matter, how many people even change their own brakes (one of the easies

>How easy is it for end-users to replace the clutch in that off-warranty Civic? For that matter, how many people even change their own brakes (one of the easiest DIY tasks, IMO)? You comparing apples and oranges. There is a difference between a task that genuinely requires labor (replacing brakes), and something that is artificially harder solely to discourage people from doing it, but could (and ought) to be a simple task that can be done 15 seconds. Honda isn't intentionally making it more complex to get to your brake pads and rotors.

ceejayoz 8y ago
One person's "intentionally making it more complex" is another person's "waterproof to two meters".
- jjoonathan 8y ago
  Have gaskets really been forgotten for technical reasons or were they quietly smothered when the planned obsolescence benefits of potting entered the industry's consciousness?
  - ceejayoz 8y ago
    When my kids' lunch container gaskets leak, I have to throw the lunchbox in the wash. When my iPhone's leak, I'm out potentially $1500.
    - AstralStorm 8y ago
      Nah, the modern silicone gaskets will hold waterproof to low pressure even with imperfect seal, and you can detect that with a cheap impedance sensor. (Obviously telling the user that water proofing is compromised and that they need to retry attaching whatever they tried to attach or replace it.)
    - jjoonathan 8y ago
      There are a dozen gaskets along your car's power train that will set you back multiple times that amount if they fail, yet they don't and you trust them not to. Of course, if you let your kid reassemble either your power train or your $1500 iPhone without supervision, the results will be exactly as you describe, but also entirely your own damn fault.
      - ceejayoz 8y ago
        > There are a dozen gaskets along your car's power train that will set you back multiple times that amount if they fail, yet they don't and you trust them not to. For that reason, I maintain precisely zero of them myself.
        jjoonathan 8y ago
        Regardless of whether or not you do the repairs yourself, you reap the benefits of the design as some combination of longer life, lower repair bills, and higher resale value.
        ceejayoz 8y ago
        Apple's pricing for a battery replacement - which I've never needed, and I tend to keep my devices for about three years - is about the same as the price of a new battery from a third-party vendor, and it comes from installation. I've had to replace two screens, and Apple's price is the same as the mall kiosk - and it'll be first-party parts, maintain the warranty, and my fingerprint sensor will still work right. Apple devices (both laptops and phones) have a dramatically higher resale value than others, so that bit of your argument baffles me.
        jjoonathan 8y ago
        I was talking about your car. The reason why apple offers those services is because it has competition. If they figure out how to make third party repair intractable, you can expect a full reversion to the "screw you, buy a new device" state of affairs.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

ceejayoz 8y ago

One person's "intentionally making it more complex" is another person's "waterproof to two meters".

jjoonathan 8y ago
Have gaskets really been forgotten for technical reasons or were they quietly smothered when the planned obsolescence benefits of potting entered the industry's consciousness?
- ceejayoz 8y ago
  When my kids' lunch container gaskets leak, I have to throw the lunchbox in the wash. When my iPhone's leak, I'm out potentially $1500.
  - AstralStorm 8y ago
    Nah, the modern silicone gaskets will hold waterproof to low pressure even with imperfect seal, and you can detect that with a cheap impedance sensor. (Obviously telling the user that water proofing is compromised and that they need to retry attaching whatever they tried to attach or replace it.)
  - jjoonathan 8y ago
    There are a dozen gaskets along your car's power train that will set you back multiple times that amount if they fail, yet they don't and you trust them not to. Of course, if you let your kid reassemble either your power train or your $1500 iPhone without supervision, the results will be exactly as you describe, but also entirely your own damn fault.
    - ceejayoz 8y ago
      > There are a dozen gaskets along your car's power train that will set you back multiple times that amount if they fail, yet they don't and you trust them not to. For that reason, I maintain precisely zero of them myself.
      - jjoonathan 8y ago
        Regardless of whether or not you do the repairs yourself, you reap the benefits of the design as some combination of longer life, lower repair bills, and higher resale value.
        ceejayoz 8y ago
        Apple's pricing for a battery replacement - which I've never needed, and I tend to keep my devices for about three years - is about the same as the price of a new battery from a third-party vendor, and it comes from installation. I've had to replace two screens, and Apple's price is the same as the mall kiosk - and it'll be first-party parts, maintain the warranty, and my fingerprint sensor will still work right. Apple devices (both laptops and phones) have a dramatically higher resale value than others, so that bit of your argument baffles me.
        jjoonathan 8y ago
        I was talking about your car. The reason why apple offers those services is because it has competition. If they figure out how to make third party repair intractable, you can expect a full reversion to the "screw you, buy a new device" state of affairs.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]