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I actually have almost the same story. Spent long nights and weekends building a company for a number of years, from the ground up, and I was naive enough to g

I actually have almost the same story. Spent long nights and weekends building a company for a number of years, from the ground up, and I was naive enough to go off a handshake and a verbal promise that my boat would float when all the rest of them did. When it started to look like the company would be sold, I politely asked if we could finalize an agreement in advance of knowing the sale amount, so that all would be clear. And I wasn’t expecting the moon, just fair compensation if the company was sold. We never even got that far. 2 weeks before the owners sold the company, and I was left out of the org chart handed to potential investors, I was “asked to leave”. I could have sued but I was young and didn’t have the money or energy to do it, so ultimately I left and moved on with my life. Not before going through a period of burnout and depression. It still stings sometimes. The owners got off with all the money, and I never saw a dime. A very expensive lesson learned. That said, I have come to learn, I don’t think I would have been where I am if it had gone any differently - a place where I can sleep at night.

deanmoriarty 8y ago
Why do you think the founders did that? If they made serious money, why not throw at least a bone at you to compensate for the work? Do you think it was all pure greed, or something went wrong in the relationship between you and them before that? If they made 100, why not give you 0.1 and keep the 99.9 for themselves? In my home country, doing something like that would probably cause the founders to be worried about their physical safety (eastern europe). Clearly you did wrong in not having it in writing, but if you were dealing with such vipers, who knows if having it in writing would have been enough anyway? Very shady
- sixdimensional 8y ago
  I think they had been burned by someone else before, and were not very trustworthy people. I learned later just how shady they were, things I hadn’t seen because I was too busy trying to actually build something that worked. I think after that it was pure greed. It was a “family-run” business and the wealth stayed with “family”.... and I was just an employee. The reason I said I can sleep at night is because later in life I realized, I was better off without their money. I would have not felt as good if I’d had gotten it given what I learned about their character and business practices which I had not known about.
  - deanmoriarty 8y ago
    It’s truly horrible. I’ve been at a startup for 4 years now, all my options are vested and partially exercised (including some painful amt tax ugh), but I’m paranoid that at the last minute, if it even arrives to that point, everything will be pulled away from me with some magic trick. That’s one of the reasons why I am not moving on to other opportunities even if my grant is almost all mature, I don’t want them to “forget my face” when the time comes, it might help them screwing me. And I’m not talking about dilution, liquidation preferences, ... that stuff is business risk, I’m talking about dealing with greed of people.
    - sixdimensional 8y ago
      I didn’t stick through it in my case since I was “asked to leave” and had nothing in writing, one of the weirdest experiences of my life but a clear sign that something was not right. But if you can stick through it I hope that on the other side of it you come out in a good way. Depending on your agreement and country, one can only hope that what you have protects your interests well and can be enforced. In my case, I could have gone after them because verbal agreements are actually still valid and enforceable, although complex and legally expensive to pursue. But I couldn’t get myself to do it and by now it is years past the statute of limitations. I don’t know but somehow greed and survival and the human condition are all inextricably linked. All I can say is I wish you sincerely the best. I still came out with something at the end - a cautionary tale, a lot more experience, and my honor. Depending on how you measure things, that counts for a lot to me, although it doesn’t necessarily put food on the table, or a roof over your head.
glangdale 8y ago
This is pretty typical behavior for a lot of startups. I once witnessed a situation where management (knowing that most people's options were way underwater) got a 'top slice' agreement where X% of an acquisition would go straight to key personnel. Amusingly, this identical vague mechanism was given 2 different names: "Management top slice" when talking to investors/managers, and "Engineering top slice" when talking to the engineering staff. This ridiculous mechanism was never defined (and ultimately no acquisition occurred in that time-frame), arguments over it ultimately may have helped a few engineers get out so that was about all the impact it had. The lesson is not to count on verbal agreements. If they don't put anything on paper it's because they don't want to and don't value you enough to care, not because "the time isn't right" or similar nonsense.
- sixdimensional 8y ago
  Seconded, don’t count on verbal agreements, and vet ANY agreement very carefully and with legal and/or tax advice wherever possible. If they intend for you to reap the reward, they won’t care if you do everything above board and legally. They might even respect you for it.

deanmoriarty 8y ago

Why do you think the founders did that? If they made serious money, why not throw at least a bone at you to compensate for the work? Do you think it was all pure greed, or something went wrong in the relationship between you and them before that? If they made 100, why not give you 0.1 and keep the 99.9 for themselves? In my home country, doing something like that would probably cause the founders to be worried about their physical safety (eastern europe). Clearly you did wrong in not having it in writing, but if you were dealing with such vipers, who knows if having it in writing would have been enough anyway? Very shady

sixdimensional 8y ago
I think they had been burned by someone else before, and were not very trustworthy people. I learned later just how shady they were, things I hadn’t seen because I was too busy trying to actually build something that worked. I think after that it was pure greed. It was a “family-run” business and the wealth stayed with “family”.... and I was just an employee. The reason I said I can sleep at night is because later in life I realized, I was better off without their money. I would have not felt as good if I’d had gotten it given what I learned about their character and business practices which I had not known about.
- deanmoriarty 8y ago
  It’s truly horrible. I’ve been at a startup for 4 years now, all my options are vested and partially exercised (including some painful amt tax ugh), but I’m paranoid that at the last minute, if it even arrives to that point, everything will be pulled away from me with some magic trick. That’s one of the reasons why I am not moving on to other opportunities even if my grant is almost all mature, I don’t want them to “forget my face” when the time comes, it might help them screwing me. And I’m not talking about dilution, liquidation preferences, ... that stuff is business risk, I’m talking about dealing with greed of people.
  - sixdimensional 8y ago
    I didn’t stick through it in my case since I was “asked to leave” and had nothing in writing, one of the weirdest experiences of my life but a clear sign that something was not right. But if you can stick through it I hope that on the other side of it you come out in a good way. Depending on your agreement and country, one can only hope that what you have protects your interests well and can be enforced. In my case, I could have gone after them because verbal agreements are actually still valid and enforceable, although complex and legally expensive to pursue. But I couldn’t get myself to do it and by now it is years past the statute of limitations. I don’t know but somehow greed and survival and the human condition are all inextricably linked. All I can say is I wish you sincerely the best. I still came out with something at the end - a cautionary tale, a lot more experience, and my honor. Depending on how you measure things, that counts for a lot to me, although it doesn’t necessarily put food on the table, or a roof over your head.

glangdale 8y ago

This is pretty typical behavior for a lot of startups. I once witnessed a situation where management (knowing that most people's options were way underwater) got a 'top slice' agreement where X% of an acquisition would go straight to key personnel. Amusingly, this identical vague mechanism was given 2 different names: "Management top slice" when talking to investors/managers, and "Engineering top slice" when talking to the engineering staff. This ridiculous mechanism was never defined (and ultimately no acquisition occurred in that time-frame), arguments over it ultimately may have helped a few engineers get out so that was about all the impact it had. The lesson is not to count on verbal agreements. If they don't put anything on paper it's because they don't want to and don't value you enough to care, not because "the time isn't right" or similar nonsense.

sixdimensional 8y ago
Seconded, don’t count on verbal agreements, and vet ANY agreement very carefully and with legal and/or tax advice wherever possible. If they intend for you to reap the reward, they won’t care if you do everything above board and legally. They might even respect you for it.