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I really like WindowMaker and similar clones, but (warning: ranting) I partially abandoned it because of how absurd it is to try to run a Linux system without D

I really like WindowMaker and similar clones, but (warning: ranting) I partially abandoned it because of how absurd it is to try to run a Linux system without DBUS-native tooling, which mostly only exists in GUIs for specific window managers/docks. Unless you're using one of a few popular desktop environments, Linux is a shitshow of bad user interface (and even some of them like Ubuntu seem to lack functionality that used to exist). I'm probably moving to Windows soon just so I don't have to spend days to get an affordable machine from 2 years ago to achieve basic hardware functionality like "graphics" and "wifi".

michaelmrose 8y ago
It's incredibly easy to start whatever you want from any environment. Normally a wm will come with a way to start apps or run scripts you can start whatever tools you need there. Example gnome starts pulseaudio if you are run a minimal environment it probably does not depend on a particular sound daemon or have anything to do with sound so instead if you want pulse you simply run pulseaudio --start in your config. I've never had a problem with wifi drivers and Linux perhaps because I've always bought devices with good Linux support. Gpu similar. Used to be the rule was buy Nvidia install official drivers, no step 3. Now newer amd are supposed to be well supported with just open source drivers. Honestly before I buy hardware I search insert hardware +Linux and if I can't find anything or discover issues with no obvious solutions I buy something else and experience few problems.
eikenberry 8y ago
What do you miss without the DBUS-native tooling?
- adrianratnapala 8y ago
  DBus based tooling gives you ways with the sysadmin complexities introduced by the same brilliant minds that brought us systemd and pulseaudio.
  - filmor 8y ago
    DBus was a joint effort to build a common messaging system to be used in all desktop environments, in particular to get away from the individual incompatible brokers that Gnome and KDE used at the time. Lennart Poettering had nothing to do with this, his first commit was in 2009, 4 years after 1.0 and 7 years after the project was started. What you are referring to is probably Kdbus, a failed initial attempt to move parts of DBus into the kernel.
jcelerier 8y ago
> I partially abandoned it because of how absurd it is to try to run a Linux system without DBUS-native toolin > I'm probably moving to Windows soon so when you migrate back to windows will you also go to services.msc and disable everything ? AFAIK windows won't even let you disable its RPC broker.
blackhaz 8y ago
Interesting. And I've recently moved to FreeBSD and let it imitate a Mac with Xfce, and I have graphics, Wi-Fi, black jack and hookers [1]. I never thought this level of imitation would be possible in the free world. [1] http://trafyx.com/?p=2551 http://trafyx.com/?p=2551
- cmroanirgo 8y ago
  > [1] http://trafyx.com/?p=2551 http://trafyx.com/?p=2551 Very nice. To me, the biggest things I have grown to love since moving to a mac are: - Spotlight (& I use it far less than most). You mention Desktop Search as the replacement. Have you wired it up to cmd+space? - Time Machine (the way it handles going back in time for your current Finder window is awesome). For me, an rsync solution is a poor cousin to Time Machine, purely because of the graphic aspect. It would be awesome to know of a FOSS equivalent to it (but would need to work with your current file manager: thunar).
  - blackhaz 8y ago
    Thanks. I don't use the Desktop Search that often but I think one can bind a shortcut to it. On the rsync, I can mount the remote file system and browse through the backups in the Double Commander or Thunar, so the graphical aspect is fully there. Plus, I have reports in the Terminal when the last successful backup was done. I don't really think I miss anything. Edit: the rsync setup to do incremental backups and naming backup folders after the day of the week is mentioned on the rsync's home: https://rsync.samba.org/examples.html https://rsync.samba.org/examples.html It's interesting how much more creative backups can be when you have full control over rsync on which, if I am not wrong, the Time Machine itself is built.
  - IronBacon 8y ago
    I don't know how Time Machine works, but deja-dup integrates with Gnome's Nautilus. In the backed-up dirs, when selecting a file, it offers a menu entry to revert to a previous backed-up version, based on a date.
  - jen20 8y ago
    ZFS snapshots on FreeBSD can help with the Time Machine functionality if not the GUI experience.
rjsw 8y ago
The applications that I use are still able to be built without DBUS. This is on BSD though, not Linux.

michaelmrose 8y ago

It's incredibly easy to start whatever you want from any environment. Normally a wm will come with a way to start apps or run scripts you can start whatever tools you need there. Example gnome starts pulseaudio if you are run a minimal environment it probably does not depend on a particular sound daemon or have anything to do with sound so instead if you want pulse you simply run pulseaudio --start in your config. I've never had a problem with wifi drivers and Linux perhaps because I've always bought devices with good Linux support. Gpu similar. Used to be the rule was buy Nvidia install official drivers, no step 3. Now newer amd are supposed to be well supported with just open source drivers. Honestly before I buy hardware I search insert hardware +Linux and if I can't find anything or discover issues with no obvious solutions I buy something else and experience few problems.

eikenberry 8y ago

What do you miss without the DBUS-native tooling?

adrianratnapala 8y ago
DBus based tooling gives you ways with the sysadmin complexities introduced by the same brilliant minds that brought us systemd and pulseaudio.
- filmor 8y ago
  DBus was a joint effort to build a common messaging system to be used in all desktop environments, in particular to get away from the individual incompatible brokers that Gnome and KDE used at the time. Lennart Poettering had nothing to do with this, his first commit was in 2009, 4 years after 1.0 and 7 years after the project was started. What you are referring to is probably Kdbus, a failed initial attempt to move parts of DBus into the kernel.

jcelerier 8y ago

> I partially abandoned it because of how absurd it is to try to run a Linux system without DBUS-native toolin > I'm probably moving to Windows soon so when you migrate back to windows will you also go to services.msc and disable everything ? AFAIK windows won't even let you disable its RPC broker.

blackhaz 8y ago

Interesting. And I've recently moved to FreeBSD and let it imitate a Mac with Xfce, and I have graphics, Wi-Fi, black jack and hookers [1]. I never thought this level of imitation would be possible in the free world. [1] http://trafyx.com/?p=2551 http://trafyx.com/?p=2551

cmroanirgo 8y ago
> [1] http://trafyx.com/?p=2551 http://trafyx.com/?p=2551 Very nice. To me, the biggest things I have grown to love since moving to a mac are: - Spotlight (& I use it far less than most). You mention Desktop Search as the replacement. Have you wired it up to cmd+space? - Time Machine (the way it handles going back in time for your current Finder window is awesome). For me, an rsync solution is a poor cousin to Time Machine, purely because of the graphic aspect. It would be awesome to know of a FOSS equivalent to it (but would need to work with your current file manager: thunar).
- blackhaz 8y ago
  Thanks. I don't use the Desktop Search that often but I think one can bind a shortcut to it. On the rsync, I can mount the remote file system and browse through the backups in the Double Commander or Thunar, so the graphical aspect is fully there. Plus, I have reports in the Terminal when the last successful backup was done. I don't really think I miss anything. Edit: the rsync setup to do incremental backups and naming backup folders after the day of the week is mentioned on the rsync's home: https://rsync.samba.org/examples.html https://rsync.samba.org/examples.html It's interesting how much more creative backups can be when you have full control over rsync on which, if I am not wrong, the Time Machine itself is built.
- IronBacon 8y ago
  I don't know how Time Machine works, but deja-dup integrates with Gnome's Nautilus. In the backed-up dirs, when selecting a file, it offers a menu entry to revert to a previous backed-up version, based on a date.
- jen20 8y ago
  ZFS snapshots on FreeBSD can help with the Time Machine functionality if not the GUI experience.

rjsw 8y ago

The applications that I use are still able to be built without DBUS. This is on BSD though, not Linux.