2 ms·

I do not have data at hand about cancer rates in the western world by age, but my guess would be that it's not so uncommon at the age of 60+. Just talking to m

by Evgeny 16y ago

I do not have data at hand about cancer rates in the western world by age, but my guess would be that it's not so uncommon at the age of 60+. Just talking to myself here: http://www.nia.nih.gov/ResearchInformation/ConferencesAndMeetings/WorkshopReport/Figure1.htm http://www.nia.nih.gov/ResearchInformation/ConferencesAndMee... 1,301.6 per 100,000 in the 60- to 64-year-old population; So, if that George B. Leavitt was indeed performing 50,000 examination per year (looks a bit high, that's over 100 per day), and 25% of inuit population lived past 60, he should have examined about 12,500 inuit aged 60+ per year. By current western standards, he should have found about 160 cases each year among those 60+ guys. The book claims he has not found any.

hugh3 16y ago
Well then, I'd consider that to be one of those extraordinary claims that demands extraordinary evidence. Something other than hearsay from a dodgy-sounding source. I'm trying to find out about this George B. Leavitt guy. I assume it was this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Baker_Leavitt,_Sr http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Baker_Leavitt,_Sr. but he wasn't a physician as claimed, he was a captain and it doesn't mention him having any medical training. Wikipedia also fails to say anything about him examining people for cancer -- if he were really doing so at the rate of one hundred and thirty six per day on average, in between his many other duties (like, say, captaining a whaling ship which would require quite a lot of time spent at sea) then one would think it would have been quite time-consuming. Other googling for "George Leavitt Cancer" provides a few repetitions of the same claim (including this thread -- hi there!) but nothing that looks reputable. The original claim seems to come from a book called "Cancer: Disease of Civilization?" written by one Vilhjalmur Stefansson who travelled with Leavitt. Also, your stats aren't quite right. Even if he were examining that many people, he wouldn't expect to detect cancer at nearly the rates that modern medicine would. Also, that's the cancer incidence rate, not the rate at which you expect to find living people with detectable cancers, since people who do have cancer tend to die, especially in societies where they can't treat it. By the time a cancer becomes big enough to detect via a cursory examination with 19th century technology, it has probably already killed you.
- Evgeny 16y ago
  These are all good points to think about. For this particular one, I agree: Even if he were examining that many people, he wouldn't expect to detect cancer at nearly the rates that modern medicine would. But at the same time, as the book claims: At the same time, he was regularly diagnosing cancers among the crews of whaling ships and other Westernized populations. So detectability, probably, was not that big of an issue itself.
  - hugh3 16y ago
    So detectability, probably, was not that big of an issue itself. Unless, of course, he got it into his head that Inuit didn't have cancers, and then started making false diagnoses based on that. Look, I don't know how much of this story is true and how much of it is made up. Certainly the part where he's a trained physician seems to have been made up. The part where he examined fifty thousand Inuit plus a significant of westerners per year in between his actual duties as a ship's captain appears to be completely implausible. If this random anecdote is the best evidence we have that living with a traditional Eskimo diet will signficantly lower your chance of cancer, I think it's safe to say that the evidence for the hypothesis is pretty darn pissweak.
    - fnl 16y ago
      Average inuit lifespan is about 45 years - however, that means they had a higher life expectancy than we did before we surpassed them. So the extremely cold environment does seem to help (although you just won't get me there :) http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2008/07/mortality-and-lifespan-of-inuit.html http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2008/07/mortality-and-...

by Evgeny 16y ago

hugh3 16y ago

Well then, I'd consider that to be one of those extraordinary claims that demands extraordinary evidence. Something other than hearsay from a dodgy-sounding source. I'm trying to find out about this George B. Leavitt guy. I assume it was this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Baker_Leavitt,_Sr http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Baker_Leavitt,_Sr. but he wasn't a physician as claimed, he was a captain and it doesn't mention him having any medical training. Wikipedia also fails to say anything about him examining people for cancer -- if he were really doing so at the rate of one hundred and thirty six per day on average, in between his many other duties (like, say, captaining a whaling ship which would require quite a lot of time spent at sea) then one would think it would have been quite time-consuming. Other googling for "George Leavitt Cancer" provides a few repetitions of the same claim (including this thread -- hi there!) but nothing that looks reputable. The original claim seems to come from a book called "Cancer: Disease of Civilization?" written by one Vilhjalmur Stefansson who travelled with Leavitt. Also, your stats aren't quite right. Even if he were examining that many people, he wouldn't expect to detect cancer at nearly the rates that modern medicine would. Also, that's the cancer incidence rate, not the rate at which you expect to find living people with detectable cancers, since people who do have cancer tend to die, especially in societies where they can't treat it. By the time a cancer becomes big enough to detect via a cursory examination with 19th century technology, it has probably already killed you.

Evgeny 16y ago
These are all good points to think about. For this particular one, I agree: Even if he were examining that many people, he wouldn't expect to detect cancer at nearly the rates that modern medicine would. But at the same time, as the book claims: At the same time, he was regularly diagnosing cancers among the crews of whaling ships and other Westernized populations. So detectability, probably, was not that big of an issue itself.
- hugh3 16y ago
  So detectability, probably, was not that big of an issue itself. Unless, of course, he got it into his head that Inuit didn't have cancers, and then started making false diagnoses based on that. Look, I don't know how much of this story is true and how much of it is made up. Certainly the part where he's a trained physician seems to have been made up. The part where he examined fifty thousand Inuit plus a significant of westerners per year in between his actual duties as a ship's captain appears to be completely implausible. If this random anecdote is the best evidence we have that living with a traditional Eskimo diet will signficantly lower your chance of cancer, I think it's safe to say that the evidence for the hypothesis is pretty darn pissweak.
  - fnl 16y ago
    Average inuit lifespan is about 45 years - however, that means they had a higher life expectancy than we did before we surpassed them. So the extremely cold environment does seem to help (although you just won't get me there :) http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2008/07/mortality-and-lifespan-of-inuit.html http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2008/07/mortality-and-...