4 ms·

I'm not sure that has worked out so well in the past. Invading places to bring them a particular definition of freedom is a bad idea. Definitely if the citizen

by points 16y ago

I'm not sure that has worked out so well in the past. Invading places to bring them a particular definition of freedom is a bad idea. Definitely if the citizens themselves want to take action, then it's up to them to do so. When you live somewhere, you play by the rules of that country... and if it's a country that doesn't have good rules, you can emigrate.

davepage 16y ago
To where? If you think the crappy states lets anyone in, do some research.
- points 16y ago
  Well he was already in Canada... He was arrested while "visiting Iran".
tomjen3 16y ago
>When you live somewhere, you play by the rules of that country >We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. Notice that it doesn't say all Americans are created equal or free, but all people. Iran has no right to trample on inalienable rights.
- points 16y ago
  Did you just try to assert that the United States Declaration of independence should apply to all of humanity? Mind. Blown.
  - tomjen3 16y ago
    Yes, or at least the principles on which it was based. And I am not an America, so this is not a nationalism issue.
    - points 16y ago
      "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." is such a wooly useless statement though. You could argue that based on the above, the US shouldn't have a minimum age limit for alcohol since it clearly infringes on teenagers (heck even college kids) pursuit of happiness. I'm not arguing that it's correct that they have strict laws about pornography, nor would I argue that it's incorrect that the US has strict laws on alcohol. It's up to each country where to set its own laws.
      - xenophanes 16y ago
        The US shouldn't have a minimum age limit on alcohol. It's a victimless crime law. Ugh.
        points 16y ago
        I can't quite tell if you're being sarcastic or not.
        xenophanes 16y ago
        I'm not being sarcastic. I'm a libertarian (i.e. classical liberal). I think people should have freedom to do things that don't hurt others. It's only legitimate to stop people drinking when there's some danger involved, e.g. drinking with driving. One can argue for other cases like drinking heavily with a "mean drunk" personality type, or drinking heavily without the experience/knowledge to be safe in that situation. Drinking with being aged 20 isn't inherently dangerous. And it's a bad (both inaccurate and ageist) proxy for the other things that actually matter.
  - jawee 16y ago
    The ideas which inspired the Declaration of Independence were thought to apply to all people. It goes back to the ideas of the social contract and the purpose of the government. That's why the Americans felt justified in breaking from Britain in what some consider the first revolution of their kind in history... men such as Jefferson really believed that the government was not protecting the rights they believed all men had. Maybe they were justified or maybe they weren't, but this was the justification they used to break from Britain. Others have used these same ideas to break away from tyrannical rule far worse or overthrow previous governments.
  - united4iran 16y ago
    Well Iran is signatory to these principals in the form of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the Int'l Covenant on Civil Rights.
- stcredzero 16y ago
  Notice that it doesn't say all Americans are created equal or free, but all people. Iran has no right to trample on inalienable rights. Granted, but it doesn't necessarily follow that we have the right to trample on Iran to protect such rights. In fact, that reasoning would seem a bit contradictory.
rbanffy 16y ago
> and if it's a country that doesn't have good rules, you can emigrate. Sadly, most of the time, they can't. Many times it's not even no other country would take them in, but their own country won't let them out.

by points 16y ago

davepage 16y ago

To where? If you think the crappy states lets anyone in, do some research.

points 16y ago
Well he was already in Canada... He was arrested while "visiting Iran".

tomjen3 16y ago

>When you live somewhere, you play by the rules of that country >We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. Notice that it doesn't say all Americans are created equal or free, but all people. Iran has no right to trample on inalienable rights.

points 16y ago
Did you just try to assert that the United States Declaration of independence should apply to all of humanity? Mind. Blown.
- tomjen3 16y ago
  Yes, or at least the principles on which it was based. And I am not an America, so this is not a nationalism issue.
  - points 16y ago
    "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." is such a wooly useless statement though. You could argue that based on the above, the US shouldn't have a minimum age limit for alcohol since it clearly infringes on teenagers (heck even college kids) pursuit of happiness. I'm not arguing that it's correct that they have strict laws about pornography, nor would I argue that it's incorrect that the US has strict laws on alcohol. It's up to each country where to set its own laws.
    - xenophanes 16y ago
      The US shouldn't have a minimum age limit on alcohol. It's a victimless crime law. Ugh.
      - points 16y ago
        I can't quite tell if you're being sarcastic or not.
        xenophanes 16y ago
        I'm not being sarcastic. I'm a libertarian (i.e. classical liberal). I think people should have freedom to do things that don't hurt others. It's only legitimate to stop people drinking when there's some danger involved, e.g. drinking with driving. One can argue for other cases like drinking heavily with a "mean drunk" personality type, or drinking heavily without the experience/knowledge to be safe in that situation. Drinking with being aged 20 isn't inherently dangerous. And it's a bad (both inaccurate and ageist) proxy for the other things that actually matter.
- jawee 16y ago
  The ideas which inspired the Declaration of Independence were thought to apply to all people. It goes back to the ideas of the social contract and the purpose of the government. That's why the Americans felt justified in breaking from Britain in what some consider the first revolution of their kind in history... men such as Jefferson really believed that the government was not protecting the rights they believed all men had. Maybe they were justified or maybe they weren't, but this was the justification they used to break from Britain. Others have used these same ideas to break away from tyrannical rule far worse or overthrow previous governments.
- united4iran 16y ago
  Well Iran is signatory to these principals in the form of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the Int'l Covenant on Civil Rights.
stcredzero 16y ago
Notice that it doesn't say all Americans are created equal or free, but all people. Iran has no right to trample on inalienable rights. Granted, but it doesn't necessarily follow that we have the right to trample on Iran to protect such rights. In fact, that reasoning would seem a bit contradictory.

rbanffy 16y ago

> and if it's a country that doesn't have good rules, you can emigrate. Sadly, most of the time, they can't. Many times it's not even no other country would take them in, but their own country won't let them out.