7 ms·

This is the first I hear about this story, words escape me really. I can't imagine where Saeed finds the strength to keep going after two years of torture. Can

by bobds 16y ago

This is the first I hear about this story, words escape me really. I can't imagine where Saeed finds the strength to keep going after two years of torture. Can we do something more meaningful/effective than sending e-letters?

jrockway 16y ago
Can we do something more meaningful/effective than sending e-letters? Overthrow the government?
- points 16y ago
  I'm not sure that has worked out so well in the past. Invading places to bring them a particular definition of freedom is a bad idea. Definitely if the citizens themselves want to take action, then it's up to them to do so. When you live somewhere, you play by the rules of that country... and if it's a country that doesn't have good rules, you can emigrate.
  - davepage 16y ago
    To where? If you think the crappy states lets anyone in, do some research.
    - points 16y ago
      Well he was already in Canada... He was arrested while "visiting Iran".
  - tomjen3 16y ago
    >When you live somewhere, you play by the rules of that country >We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. Notice that it doesn't say all Americans are created equal or free, but all people. Iran has no right to trample on inalienable rights.
    - points 16y ago
      Did you just try to assert that the United States Declaration of independence should apply to all of humanity? Mind. Blown.
      - tomjen3 16y ago
        Yes, or at least the principles on which it was based. And I am not an America, so this is not a nationalism issue.
        points 16y ago
        "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." is such a wooly useless statement though. You could argue that based on the above, the US shouldn't have a minimum age limit for alcohol since it clearly infringes on teenagers (heck even college kids) pursuit of happiness. I'm not arguing that it's correct that they have strict laws about pornography, nor would I argue that it's incorrect that the US has strict laws on alcohol. It's up to each country where to set its own laws.
        xenophanes 16y ago
        The US shouldn't have a minimum age limit on alcohol. It's a victimless crime law. Ugh.
        points 16y ago
        I can't quite tell if you're being sarcastic or not.
        xenophanes 16y ago
        I'm not being sarcastic. I'm a libertarian (i.e. classical liberal). I think people should have freedom to do things that don't hurt others. It's only legitimate to stop people drinking when there's some danger involved, e.g. drinking with driving. One can argue for other cases like drinking heavily with a "mean drunk" personality type, or drinking heavily without the experience/knowledge to be safe in that situation. Drinking with being aged 20 isn't inherently dangerous. And it's a bad (both inaccurate and ageist) proxy for the other things that actually matter.
  - rbanffy 16y ago
    > and if it's a country that doesn't have good rules, you can emigrate. Sadly, most of the time, they can't. Many times it's not even no other country would take them in, but their own country won't let them out.
- arethuza 16y ago
  I'm not sure that worked terribly well the last time the US/UK did that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Iran#Mohammad-Reza_Shah http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Iran#Mohammad-Reza_S...
  - gaius 16y ago
    Yeah, you have to nip this sort of thing in the bud before it takes root in your country.
tomjen3 16y ago
Short of overthrowing the government, you could try to get Amnesty to add him to their letter writing campaign, they have a pretty decent track record of saving people and they already have more people writing letters now than you could ever get on HN.
- bobds 16y ago
  That's not a bad idea. I was hoping that xer0x, being a friend of Saeed, could point us in the right direction. Perhaps his family could use some donations to hire lawyers, experts or whatever else is needed.
  - united4iran 16y ago
    Unfortunately, they aren't allowing him access to independent legal representation. What Saeed needs right now, big time, is access to the technology that will allow him to prove his case and disprove the IRI's baseless charges.

by bobds 16y ago

jrockway 16y ago

Can we do something more meaningful/effective than sending e-letters? Overthrow the government?

points 16y ago
I'm not sure that has worked out so well in the past. Invading places to bring them a particular definition of freedom is a bad idea. Definitely if the citizens themselves want to take action, then it's up to them to do so. When you live somewhere, you play by the rules of that country... and if it's a country that doesn't have good rules, you can emigrate.
- davepage 16y ago
  To where? If you think the crappy states lets anyone in, do some research.
  - points 16y ago
    Well he was already in Canada... He was arrested while "visiting Iran".
- tomjen3 16y ago
  >When you live somewhere, you play by the rules of that country >We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. Notice that it doesn't say all Americans are created equal or free, but all people. Iran has no right to trample on inalienable rights.
  - points 16y ago
    Did you just try to assert that the United States Declaration of independence should apply to all of humanity? Mind. Blown.
    - tomjen3 16y ago
      Yes, or at least the principles on which it was based. And I am not an America, so this is not a nationalism issue.
      - points 16y ago
        "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." is such a wooly useless statement though. You could argue that based on the above, the US shouldn't have a minimum age limit for alcohol since it clearly infringes on teenagers (heck even college kids) pursuit of happiness. I'm not arguing that it's correct that they have strict laws about pornography, nor would I argue that it's incorrect that the US has strict laws on alcohol. It's up to each country where to set its own laws.
        xenophanes 16y ago
        The US shouldn't have a minimum age limit on alcohol. It's a victimless crime law. Ugh.
        points 16y ago
        I can't quite tell if you're being sarcastic or not.
        xenophanes 16y ago
        I'm not being sarcastic. I'm a libertarian (i.e. classical liberal). I think people should have freedom to do things that don't hurt others. It's only legitimate to stop people drinking when there's some danger involved, e.g. drinking with driving. One can argue for other cases like drinking heavily with a "mean drunk" personality type, or drinking heavily without the experience/knowledge to be safe in that situation. Drinking with being aged 20 isn't inherently dangerous. And it's a bad (both inaccurate and ageist) proxy for the other things that actually matter.
- rbanffy 16y ago
  > and if it's a country that doesn't have good rules, you can emigrate. Sadly, most of the time, they can't. Many times it's not even no other country would take them in, but their own country won't let them out.
arethuza 16y ago
I'm not sure that worked terribly well the last time the US/UK did that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Iran#Mohammad-Reza_Shah http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Iran#Mohammad-Reza_S...
- gaius 16y ago
  Yeah, you have to nip this sort of thing in the bud before it takes root in your country.

tomjen3 16y ago

Short of overthrowing the government, you could try to get Amnesty to add him to their letter writing campaign, they have a pretty decent track record of saving people and they already have more people writing letters now than you could ever get on HN.

bobds 16y ago
That's not a bad idea. I was hoping that xer0x, being a friend of Saeed, could point us in the right direction. Perhaps his family could use some donations to hire lawyers, experts or whatever else is needed.
- united4iran 16y ago
  Unfortunately, they aren't allowing him access to independent legal representation. What Saeed needs right now, big time, is access to the technology that will allow him to prove his case and disprove the IRI's baseless charges.