5 ms·

Flying domestic in the US is crazy expensive when compared with budget airlines in Europe, where (if you look out for it) you can get a flight from London to Ro

Flying domestic in the US is crazy expensive when compared with budget airlines in Europe, where (if you look out for it) you can get a flight from London to Rome for £40. International from/to the US is pretty much the same as everyone else in the world pays. This is based on my experience paying for and flying to 32 countries, many more than once. My understanding about why Amercians don't fly international is the same as the UK used to be - not many even have a passport, and even less have an interest in cultures other than their own. For these last two comments I have no data, only hearsay.

free652 8y ago
>Flying domestic in the US is crazy expensive when compared with budget airlines in Europe, where (if you look out for it) you can get a flight from London to Rome for £40. Its $60 for EWR-ATL and I didn't even look hard. $260 EWR-SFO and that's a 5 hour flight.
- jedmeyers 8y ago
  And KEWR-KATL is 650 nm direct and EGLL-LIRF is slightly over 780 nm. People forget how big the US is. Some states can really be considered separate countries by european standards.
  - learc83 8y ago
    Here's a map to illustrate the point. https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/8fscnh/european_states_overlaid_to_the_map_of_us/ https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/8fscnh/european_st...
dx87 8y ago
I don't think it's necessarily that we have less interest in cultures besides our own, it's more that we usually plan vacations around wanting to see something, like a national monument, or do something, like party at Mardi Gras. Combine that mindset with the fact that the USA is so big, and there isn't much of a reason to ever leave the country because you'll never be able to see everything it has to offer, plus you don't have to pay to fly across the ocean. And yeah, I personally don't know anyone with a passport, it seems pretty rare here. I think one reason might be because of our neighboring countries. Until a couple of years ago, Canada didn't require a passport or visa when crossing our border, and Mexican border towns have been viewed as unsafe for as long as I can remember, so people didn't really go to Mexico except by cruise ships.
- Canada 8y ago
  It was more than 10 years ago that all changed. Not only that, US immigration officers even had personal discretion to let us in without proof of citizenship at all, and I'm pretty sure it was the same going North. Sucks how things are now, it just seems unnecessary to me.
- astura 8y ago
  >people didn't really go to Mexico except by cruise ships. Cancun has always been a popular destination.
- sbierwagen 8y ago
  Note that it costs $145 to get a U.S. passport now
  - astura 8y ago
    Amortized that's only $14.50/year, and renewals cost less.
Kalium 8y ago
When you can travel freely in an area basically the size of continental Europe without a passport, having one is not generally seen as a baseline requirement for being a regular person. This is a major change in mentality from many places where countries are smaller and crossing them not a rare event. There might be a minor distinction to be made between having a no interest in other cultures and having £1500 lying around to fly to London.
- raverbashing 8y ago
  > There might be a minor distinction to be made between having a no interest in other cultures and having £1500 lying around to fly to London. 1500? Easily doable for 500/600 return with some planning. I get those values when searching MIA-London in Google flights, doable with other cities as well
  - astura 8y ago
    If you live on the east coast you can get a discount flight to London for only $200 round trip. When these sales come up a group of my friends grabs tickets and go together, it's become a tradition.
  - Kalium 8y ago
    San Francisco to London can easily run $2000 coach. That said, you're absolutely right! It's always possible to find a way to get around for much less than typical full price, and you are very correct to note this. However, is it perhaps possible that the precise numbers might not be particularly relevant to the point? It's still at least an order of magnitude more than the cheap flight, for two major destination cities about as far apart and Detroit and Dallas.
    - tim333 8y ago
      Trying randomly for Detroit to Dallas vs Detroit to London on Oct 1 it was £51 vs £133 single. The London routing involved changing in Reykjavik though.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
ufmace 8y ago
I think that discounts the vast area, number of landmarks and tourist attractions, and multitude of different sub-cultures inside the US itself. When you can drive somewhere new and interesting in a few hours, and don't need any paperwork or currency exchange and don't have to worry about the language, that's much more appealing than expensive and time-consuming overseas flights.
- roel_v 8y ago
  All of that save the language is true for the EU as well.
darpa_escapee 8y ago
Domestic flights in the US are relatively cheap if you're flying between two international airports. Cheap, as in less than $120.
jcranmer 8y ago
> My understanding about why Amercians don't fly international is the same as the UK used to be - not many even have a passport, and even less have an interest in cultures other than their own. There's a much simpler reason: the US is unbelievably large compared to European countries. The US equivalent to a London-Rome trip would be Washington, DC-Miami. Another example I give is that I used to live in Urbana-Champaign, which is "near" Chicago, which is roughly commensurate to saying that Paris is "near" Brussels. And of course, the sheer size of the US also includes a massive diversity of climates and environments. The Florida Keys, North Carolina's Outer Banks, the Great Lakes, badlands in the Dakotas, Yellowstone, the Shenandoah Valley, Maine wilderness, Utah's canyons, Nevada's salt flats, San Diego--all of these places are completely different from one another. Not to mention we have our own Caribbean islands (US Virgin Islands, Puerto Rico), subarctic wilderness (northern Alaska), and Pacific paradises (Hawaii, American Samoa, Guam, Northern Marianas).
sonnyblarney 8y ago
In Europe, distances are much shorter, and they have a different taxation regime. This I think is the bulk of the issue.

free652 8y ago

>Flying domestic in the US is crazy expensive when compared with budget airlines in Europe, where (if you look out for it) you can get a flight from London to Rome for £40. Its $60 for EWR-ATL and I didn't even look hard. $260 EWR-SFO and that's a 5 hour flight.

jedmeyers 8y ago
And KEWR-KATL is 650 nm direct and EGLL-LIRF is slightly over 780 nm. People forget how big the US is. Some states can really be considered separate countries by european standards.
- learc83 8y ago
  Here's a map to illustrate the point. https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/8fscnh/european_states_overlaid_to_the_map_of_us/ https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/8fscnh/european_st...

dx87 8y ago

I don't think it's necessarily that we have less interest in cultures besides our own, it's more that we usually plan vacations around wanting to see something, like a national monument, or do something, like party at Mardi Gras. Combine that mindset with the fact that the USA is so big, and there isn't much of a reason to ever leave the country because you'll never be able to see everything it has to offer, plus you don't have to pay to fly across the ocean. And yeah, I personally don't know anyone with a passport, it seems pretty rare here. I think one reason might be because of our neighboring countries. Until a couple of years ago, Canada didn't require a passport or visa when crossing our border, and Mexican border towns have been viewed as unsafe for as long as I can remember, so people didn't really go to Mexico except by cruise ships.

Canada 8y ago
It was more than 10 years ago that all changed. Not only that, US immigration officers even had personal discretion to let us in without proof of citizenship at all, and I'm pretty sure it was the same going North. Sucks how things are now, it just seems unnecessary to me.
astura 8y ago
>people didn't really go to Mexico except by cruise ships. Cancun has always been a popular destination.
sbierwagen 8y ago
Note that it costs $145 to get a U.S. passport now
- astura 8y ago
  Amortized that's only $14.50/year, and renewals cost less.

Kalium 8y ago

When you can travel freely in an area basically the size of continental Europe without a passport, having one is not generally seen as a baseline requirement for being a regular person. This is a major change in mentality from many places where countries are smaller and crossing them not a rare event. There might be a minor distinction to be made between having a no interest in other cultures and having £1500 lying around to fly to London.

raverbashing 8y ago
> There might be a minor distinction to be made between having a no interest in other cultures and having £1500 lying around to fly to London. 1500? Easily doable for 500/600 return with some planning. I get those values when searching MIA-London in Google flights, doable with other cities as well
- astura 8y ago
  If you live on the east coast you can get a discount flight to London for only $200 round trip. When these sales come up a group of my friends grabs tickets and go together, it's become a tradition.
- Kalium 8y ago
  San Francisco to London can easily run $2000 coach. That said, you're absolutely right! It's always possible to find a way to get around for much less than typical full price, and you are very correct to note this. However, is it perhaps possible that the precise numbers might not be particularly relevant to the point? It's still at least an order of magnitude more than the cheap flight, for two major destination cities about as far apart and Detroit and Dallas.
  - tim333 8y ago
    Trying randomly for Detroit to Dallas vs Detroit to London on Oct 1 it was £51 vs £133 single. The London routing involved changing in Reykjavik though.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

ufmace 8y ago

I think that discounts the vast area, number of landmarks and tourist attractions, and multitude of different sub-cultures inside the US itself. When you can drive somewhere new and interesting in a few hours, and don't need any paperwork or currency exchange and don't have to worry about the language, that's much more appealing than expensive and time-consuming overseas flights.

roel_v 8y ago
All of that save the language is true for the EU as well.

darpa_escapee 8y ago

Domestic flights in the US are relatively cheap if you're flying between two international airports. Cheap, as in less than $120.

jcranmer 8y ago

> My understanding about why Amercians don't fly international is the same as the UK used to be - not many even have a passport, and even less have an interest in cultures other than their own. There's a much simpler reason: the US is unbelievably large compared to European countries. The US equivalent to a London-Rome trip would be Washington, DC-Miami. Another example I give is that I used to live in Urbana-Champaign, which is "near" Chicago, which is roughly commensurate to saying that Paris is "near" Brussels. And of course, the sheer size of the US also includes a massive diversity of climates and environments. The Florida Keys, North Carolina's Outer Banks, the Great Lakes, badlands in the Dakotas, Yellowstone, the Shenandoah Valley, Maine wilderness, Utah's canyons, Nevada's salt flats, San Diego--all of these places are completely different from one another. Not to mention we have our own Caribbean islands (US Virgin Islands, Puerto Rico), subarctic wilderness (northern Alaska), and Pacific paradises (Hawaii, American Samoa, Guam, Northern Marianas).

sonnyblarney 8y ago

In Europe, distances are much shorter, and they have a different taxation regime. This I think is the bulk of the issue.