4 ms·

I hoped to see that the author dealt more directly with the address problem. Is there no way to set up free post boxes with a fixed address for those that need

I hoped to see that the author dealt more directly with the address problem. Is there no way to set up free post boxes with a fixed address for those that need them?

dpwm 8y ago
> I hoped to see that the author dealt more directly with the address problem. It's a hard problem, in part because you really need the state to address many of the problems with assuming fixed address. Instead of recognising the reality that people were people whether they had fixed address or not, the UK parliament decided to simply ban vagrancy [0]. Aspects of the act are still in force today. > Is there no way to set up free post boxes with a fixed address for those that need them? The currently governing party of the UK keeps parroting the line that "work is the best way out out of poverty" whilst passing laws and fostering policies that make that make life significantly harder for anybody homeless. It's quite likely that the anti-"illegal"-immigration[1] "hostile environment" policy would view giving addresses to homeless people without proving their right to accommodation would result in the standard £10,000 fine per person the home office claims isn't here legally. If an address was simply about receiving letters, then there is the Poste Restante service[2], which I only learnt of today. I suspect that few employers would accept that address and homeless people often don't have the proof of eligibility for work that they require. What was once a universal healthcare system is actually no longer: In England, General Practitioners are required to write to patients and remove them from the register if they do not confirm receipt of the letter. This means being homeless without an address means emergency-only care, at least according to policy. [3] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vagrancy_Act_1824 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vagrancy_Act_1824 [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poste_restante#United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poste_restante#United_Kingdom [2] It actually affected a lot of people who were here legitimately. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windrush_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windrush_scandal [3] There are actually out of hours services that will see you without a fixed address. There may also be some local clinics that reach out to homeless people, but this is not by any central policy and if certain newspapers covered this appalling abuse of hard-working taxpayer's money being potentially used for homeless illegal immigrants then it would be swiftly dealt with.
- jmickey 8y ago
  I do wonder how having a postal address is related to being a legal or illegal immigrant. After all - if your friend has a fixed address, they can share it with you, so you can receive mail, can they not? Regardless if you are an illegal immigrant or not.
  - dpwm 8y ago
    > I do wonder how having a postal address is related to being a legal or illegal immigrant. After all - if your friend has a fixed address, they can share it with you, so you can receive mail, can they not? It's generally not so much about receiving mail as having an address which you are deemed resident at for official purposes. That's a little bit different to having somewhere to pick letters up. There's always Poste Restante for picking letters up, so if it was merely post that was the problem that would be the solution. If you are going to provide an address for residency, you will be treated as providing accommodation. If you're on any kind of benefit, this will be used against you when your friend gets their first pay packet, because address is mandatory for payroll and is shared with the benefits agencies and immigration enforcement electronically. Good luck disputing the home office claim that the person you're providing accommodation to isn't a UK citizen. In the UK there is a legal requirement on employers to check right to work of employees. This requires paperwork that the applicant is unlikely to have if homeless. Getting duplicates of the paperwork takes money and time. You need either a passport or evidence of national insurance number from a previous job or benefits claim in addition to a birth certificate to prove eligibility to work if you are a UK citizen. > Regardless if you are an illegal immigrant or not. In creating a system hostile to illegal immigrants the past few UK governments have made a hostile environment for the bottom quartile of earners in the UK to gain work. These checks exist for no other reason. [0] What we often see in newspaper articles is the first reason somebody can't get a job. It's very rare to see the full list of obstacles. It's like a compiler that fails at the first error when there are tens of other errors waiting after that first one is fixed. [0] Even the guide to right-to-work documents is published by Immigration Enforcement and UK Visas and Immigration. See https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/acceptable-right-to-work-documents-an-employers-guide https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/acceptable-right-...
- 8y ago

I hoped to see that the author dealt more directly with the address problem. Is there no way to set up free post boxes with a fixed address for those that need them?

dpwm 8y ago

> I hoped to see that the author dealt more directly with the address problem. It's a hard problem, in part because you really need the state to address many of the problems with assuming fixed address. Instead of recognising the reality that people were people whether they had fixed address or not, the UK parliament decided to simply ban vagrancy [0]. Aspects of the act are still in force today. > Is there no way to set up free post boxes with a fixed address for those that need them? The currently governing party of the UK keeps parroting the line that "work is the best way out out of poverty" whilst passing laws and fostering policies that make that make life significantly harder for anybody homeless. It's quite likely that the anti-"illegal"-immigration[1] "hostile environment" policy would view giving addresses to homeless people without proving their right to accommodation would result in the standard £10,000 fine per person the home office claims isn't here legally. If an address was simply about receiving letters, then there is the Poste Restante service[2], which I only learnt of today. I suspect that few employers would accept that address and homeless people often don't have the proof of eligibility for work that they require. What was once a universal healthcare system is actually no longer: In England, General Practitioners are required to write to patients and remove them from the register if they do not confirm receipt of the letter. This means being homeless without an address means emergency-only care, at least according to policy. [3] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vagrancy_Act_1824 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vagrancy_Act_1824 [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poste_restante#United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poste_restante#United_Kingdom [2] It actually affected a lot of people who were here legitimately. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windrush_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windrush_scandal [3] There are actually out of hours services that will see you without a fixed address. There may also be some local clinics that reach out to homeless people, but this is not by any central policy and if certain newspapers covered this appalling abuse of hard-working taxpayer's money being potentially used for homeless illegal immigrants then it would be swiftly dealt with.

jmickey 8y ago
I do wonder how having a postal address is related to being a legal or illegal immigrant. After all - if your friend has a fixed address, they can share it with you, so you can receive mail, can they not? Regardless if you are an illegal immigrant or not.
- dpwm 8y ago
  > I do wonder how having a postal address is related to being a legal or illegal immigrant. After all - if your friend has a fixed address, they can share it with you, so you can receive mail, can they not? It's generally not so much about receiving mail as having an address which you are deemed resident at for official purposes. That's a little bit different to having somewhere to pick letters up. There's always Poste Restante for picking letters up, so if it was merely post that was the problem that would be the solution. If you are going to provide an address for residency, you will be treated as providing accommodation. If you're on any kind of benefit, this will be used against you when your friend gets their first pay packet, because address is mandatory for payroll and is shared with the benefits agencies and immigration enforcement electronically. Good luck disputing the home office claim that the person you're providing accommodation to isn't a UK citizen. In the UK there is a legal requirement on employers to check right to work of employees. This requires paperwork that the applicant is unlikely to have if homeless. Getting duplicates of the paperwork takes money and time. You need either a passport or evidence of national insurance number from a previous job or benefits claim in addition to a birth certificate to prove eligibility to work if you are a UK citizen. > Regardless if you are an illegal immigrant or not. In creating a system hostile to illegal immigrants the past few UK governments have made a hostile environment for the bottom quartile of earners in the UK to gain work. These checks exist for no other reason. [0] What we often see in newspaper articles is the first reason somebody can't get a job. It's very rare to see the full list of obstacles. It's like a compiler that fails at the first error when there are tens of other errors waiting after that first one is fixed. [0] Even the guide to right-to-work documents is published by Immigration Enforcement and UK Visas and Immigration. See https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/acceptable-right-to-work-documents-an-employers-guide https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/acceptable-right-...
8y ago