6 ms·

Meanwhile in the developed world: TGV takes 2 hours from Lyon to Paris, google maps claims a car takes 4 hours. The French do like their train strikes though.

Meanwhile in the developed world: TGV takes 2 hours from Lyon to Paris, google maps claims a car takes 4 hours. The French do like their train strikes though. Maybe let's try Japan. Tokyo to Kyoto: 2.5 hours train, 5 hours by car. Additional advantage: I can walk around, and get a meal (not sure about the Shinkansen, but the TGV does have a restaurant). And read, or work, or daydream.

thrav 8y ago
Japanese trains were lovely. Very comfortable. Great views of Mt. Fuji and the coast along that route. Definitely options for snack and drink. Don’t know about a full dining car, but it wouldn’t surprise me.
- azernik 8y ago
  Japanese train food culture is all about buying stuff at the station. The packaged food you can buy at stores in Japan is shockingly good, and they're generally clustered at train stations. (A cultural note: eating on long-distance trains is expected (they have fold-down tables and cup-holders), but eating or drinking (other than water) on local trains is an EXTREME faux pas. Don't do it.)
  - bane 8y ago
    Here's a great video on this food culture https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l25iRW_-4vI&t=2s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l25iRW_-4vI&t=2s
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
teej 8y ago
This YouTube video is the best I’ve seen in explaining why things are the way they are in the US - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbEfzuCLoAQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbEfzuCLoAQ
- ronnier 8y ago
  Really good video, thanks for posting.
  - stochastic_monk 8y ago
    I liked it but wish I could read for the information instead of waiting 8 minutes for it to be explained.
- ofcrpls 8y ago
  Unrelated - Are you teejsound?
  - teej 8y ago
    Nope!
- hexane360 8y ago
  Note that that video specifically mentions the Northeast corridor and the Acela as an exception. The Northeast is definitely dense enough to support rail.
austenallred 8y ago
New York to LA is 4,500 kilometers so comparing to Paris/Lyon might be just a bit apples and oranges. Paris to Baghdad is about the same distance. Cities in the US are too far apart for trains to generally make sense. Trains are for freight.
- the_mitsuhiko 8y ago
  The comparison was Ney York to Boston.
- umanwizard 8y ago
  This all is really only true west of the Mississippi. Trains are quite widely used in the densely populated Northeast.
- fshaun 8y ago
  Every thread about high speed rail seems to have this response to an argument no one is making. NY-LA doesn't make sense, but it is nationally embarrassing not to have the BosWash corridor connected.
  - mikeash 8y ago
    But it is connected.
    - TheCoelacanth 8y ago
      By a train that averages 55 mph. That is a national embarrassment.
      - mikeash 8y ago
        I found 70MPH, where did you see 55?
        TheCoelacanth 8y ago
        I misread the comment as Boston-New York like the route in the article. Boston-New York is slower than the rest of the route. South Station in Boston to Penn Station in New York takes 3:46[1] and those stations are 212 miles apart[2] which is an average of about 55 mph. [1] https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/projects/dotcom/english/public/documents/timetables/Northeast-Schedule-W04-060918.pdf https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/projects/dotcom/english/p... [2] https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Pennsylvania+Station,+New+York,+NY+10119/boston+massachusetts+south+station/@41.5508299,-73.6494424,8z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m13!4m12!1m5!1m1!1s0x89c259ae15b2adcb:0x7955420634fd7eba!2m2!1d-73.993519!2d40.750568!1m5!1m1!1s0x89e37081fd13d33b:0xc6b2706315b5125c!2m2!1d-71.0550924!2d42.3518711 https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Pennsylvania+Station,+New+Yo...
johnchristopher 8y ago
> Meanwhile in the developed world: TGV takes 2 hours from Lyon to Paris, google maps claims a car takes 4 hours. Yeah. But try going anywhere around Lyon[0] after the nice TGV trip from Paris[0] and welcome to connection hell. [0] Or any other TGV connected cities.
- azernik 8y ago
  The central train station sits right on top of a metro station, a tram line (for longer-distance), and several bus lines. "Connection hell" is not how I would describe the process of switching from one to the other in European city centers.
- Tpt 8y ago
  > Yeah. But try going anywhere around Lyon[0] after the nice TGV trip from Paris[0] and welcome to connection hell. Public transportations are often quite good in European cities. When I was in college, it tooked me sligtly more than 3 hours door to door to go from my parents home in a Paris suburb to my University dorm in Lyon. It's not so bad for a trip of nearly 450km.
- Doctor_Fegg 8y ago
  Really? We got the TER from Lyon to Saint Etienne last year, connecting out of a TGV. It was fine, and more reliable than the jam-prone parallel road.
- kken 8y ago
  What is the problem? Lyon has a fully developed system of trams and subways. It's directly connected to the TGV train station. http://www.tcl.fr/var/tcl/storage/original/application/b8cb650a73f20cb493200ae0f144d347 http://www.tcl.fr/var/tcl/storage/original/application/b8cb6...
- yardie 8y ago
  What about? I’ve made the trip many times. There was nothing hellish about it. Same for Sens, Lille, Montpellier, and Nice.
- johnchristopher 8y ago
on_and_off 8y ago
As a French that has moved to California : wow does transport suck in the USA !!! Both subway and trains are a big step back from what I was used to in France.
CaptainZapp 8y ago
I've only seen restaurants in exhibited historic Shinkansens. Fret not. There is an on board service, which provides from ice cream over sakes and cold beers a variety of up to 3 bento boxes for sale directly at your seat. The better option is to buy something on a train station, since the variety is much bigger. Tokyo (station) is famous for the shop that sells ~ 200 different bentos from the whole country. A short stop makes a delightful train ride even more delightful. The nice thing in Japan is that eating some fermented fish out of a bento box is completely acceptable, while yakking away on your cell phone is not (you can move out of the carriage if you must make a call). As for timings. The most impressive for me was 85 minutes from Brussels to Paris, city to city. You must be pretty stupid to use a plane for that.

thrav 8y ago

Japanese trains were lovely. Very comfortable. Great views of Mt. Fuji and the coast along that route. Definitely options for snack and drink. Don’t know about a full dining car, but it wouldn’t surprise me.

azernik 8y ago
Japanese train food culture is all about buying stuff at the station. The packaged food you can buy at stores in Japan is shockingly good, and they're generally clustered at train stations. (A cultural note: eating on long-distance trains is expected (they have fold-down tables and cup-holders), but eating or drinking (other than water) on local trains is an EXTREME faux pas. Don't do it.)
- bane 8y ago
  Here's a great video on this food culture https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l25iRW_-4vI&t=2s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l25iRW_-4vI&t=2s

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

teej 8y ago

This YouTube video is the best I’ve seen in explaining why things are the way they are in the US - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbEfzuCLoAQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbEfzuCLoAQ

ronnier 8y ago
Really good video, thanks for posting.
- stochastic_monk 8y ago
  I liked it but wish I could read for the information instead of waiting 8 minutes for it to be explained.
ofcrpls 8y ago
Unrelated - Are you teejsound?
- teej 8y ago
  Nope!
hexane360 8y ago
Note that that video specifically mentions the Northeast corridor and the Acela as an exception. The Northeast is definitely dense enough to support rail.

austenallred 8y ago

New York to LA is 4,500 kilometers so comparing to Paris/Lyon might be just a bit apples and oranges. Paris to Baghdad is about the same distance. Cities in the US are too far apart for trains to generally make sense. Trains are for freight.

the_mitsuhiko 8y ago
The comparison was Ney York to Boston.
umanwizard 8y ago
This all is really only true west of the Mississippi. Trains are quite widely used in the densely populated Northeast.
fshaun 8y ago
Every thread about high speed rail seems to have this response to an argument no one is making. NY-LA doesn't make sense, but it is nationally embarrassing not to have the BosWash corridor connected.
- mikeash 8y ago
  But it is connected.
  - TheCoelacanth 8y ago
    By a train that averages 55 mph. That is a national embarrassment.
    - mikeash 8y ago
      I found 70MPH, where did you see 55?
      - TheCoelacanth 8y ago
        I misread the comment as Boston-New York like the route in the article. Boston-New York is slower than the rest of the route. South Station in Boston to Penn Station in New York takes 3:46[1] and those stations are 212 miles apart[2] which is an average of about 55 mph. [1] https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/projects/dotcom/english/public/documents/timetables/Northeast-Schedule-W04-060918.pdf https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/projects/dotcom/english/p... [2] https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Pennsylvania+Station,+New+York,+NY+10119/boston+massachusetts+south+station/@41.5508299,-73.6494424,8z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m13!4m12!1m5!1m1!1s0x89c259ae15b2adcb:0x7955420634fd7eba!2m2!1d-73.993519!2d40.750568!1m5!1m1!1s0x89e37081fd13d33b:0xc6b2706315b5125c!2m2!1d-71.0550924!2d42.3518711 https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Pennsylvania+Station,+New+Yo...

johnchristopher 8y ago

> Meanwhile in the developed world: TGV takes 2 hours from Lyon to Paris, google maps claims a car takes 4 hours. Yeah. But try going anywhere around Lyon[0] after the nice TGV trip from Paris[0] and welcome to connection hell. [0] Or any other TGV connected cities.

azernik 8y ago
The central train station sits right on top of a metro station, a tram line (for longer-distance), and several bus lines. "Connection hell" is not how I would describe the process of switching from one to the other in European city centers.
Tpt 8y ago
> Yeah. But try going anywhere around Lyon[0] after the nice TGV trip from Paris[0] and welcome to connection hell. Public transportations are often quite good in European cities. When I was in college, it tooked me sligtly more than 3 hours door to door to go from my parents home in a Paris suburb to my University dorm in Lyon. It's not so bad for a trip of nearly 450km.
Doctor_Fegg 8y ago
Really? We got the TER from Lyon to Saint Etienne last year, connecting out of a TGV. It was fine, and more reliable than the jam-prone parallel road.
kken 8y ago
What is the problem? Lyon has a fully developed system of trams and subways. It's directly connected to the TGV train station. http://www.tcl.fr/var/tcl/storage/original/application/b8cb650a73f20cb493200ae0f144d347 http://www.tcl.fr/var/tcl/storage/original/application/b8cb6...
yardie 8y ago
What about? I’ve made the trip many times. There was nothing hellish about it. Same for Sens, Lille, Montpellier, and Nice.
johnchristopher 8y ago

on_and_off 8y ago

As a French that has moved to California : wow does transport suck in the USA !!! Both subway and trains are a big step back from what I was used to in France.

CaptainZapp 8y ago

I've only seen restaurants in exhibited historic Shinkansens. Fret not. There is an on board service, which provides from ice cream over sakes and cold beers a variety of up to 3 bento boxes for sale directly at your seat. The better option is to buy something on a train station, since the variety is much bigger. Tokyo (station) is famous for the shop that sells ~ 200 different bentos from the whole country. A short stop makes a delightful train ride even more delightful. The nice thing in Japan is that eating some fermented fish out of a bento box is completely acceptable, while yakking away on your cell phone is not (you can move out of the carriage if you must make a call). As for timings. The most impressive for me was 85 minutes from Brussels to Paris, city to city. You must be pretty stupid to use a plane for that.