5 ms·

My oven has a Shabbat mode: when you activate this mode, touching the controls doesn't make any sound anymore, opening the oven door doesn't trigger the light,

My oven has a Shabbat mode: when you activate this mode, touching the controls doesn't make any sound anymore, opening the oven door doesn't trigger the light, and when touching a button the effect is delayed by a few seconds so you're not technically getting any result from touching the button while still getting the effect from touching the button.

Gracana 8y ago
I always find these things kind of funny. How important are these rules if god is so easily tricked?
- firic 8y ago
  God is not tricked. There is no restriction against cooking on Shabbat. There are restrictions against eg. making a fire and building. If you can somehow cook without doing any of those things, then there is nothing wrong with it.
  - Gracana 8y ago
    I was talking about this: "when touching a button the effect is delayed by a few seconds so you're not technically getting any result from touching the button while still getting the effect from touching the button."
    - compsciphd 8y ago
      The concept is called Grama and its not universally accepted for these ovens and the like. For the reason you stated, if something is going to happen, just we are not 100% sure exactly when, then some don't consider it grama. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grama_(halacha) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grama_(halacha) Grama really only helps you for rabbinically prohibited actions. (i.e. man made law, man made loophole). Not law that is considered biblical in nature. Most people who wonder about all the "loopholes" don't realize that its talking about what jews considered rabbinic law. to make an analogy, congress can't legislate a loophole around the constitution, they can legislate loopholes around their own laws.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
  - squozzer 8y ago
    It all sounds a bit legalistic. I say that with a grin.
close04 8y ago
Don’t you trigger an electronic counter by pressing the button?
- mbreese 8y ago
  If I recall, some of these modes activate a random timer, so you don’t directly trigger an action. More like indicating that an action should occur, without directly starting it.
  - coaxial 8y ago
    Yes, the delay is random. According to the manual, this was validated with experts Rabbis and is congruent with the way things should be done on Sabbath.
    - user3359 8y ago
      "it is in God's hands... As long as it's within the next 10 seconds"
      - close04 8y ago
        People will always interpret the words of their God to better fit their own needs. They're having a hard enough time as it is to keep people close to religion. This means artificially taking down some of the barriers that no longer fit in today's world view is a must. I mean breaking this commandment in particular is punishable by death. So I guess there isn't much choice if the religion is to have any followers. But I'm waiting for the first person that, after consulting with expert clergy, comes at the conclusion that all they did was press the trigger. The gun and projectile did the rest, with great assistance from the target who decided to be in the line of sight :).
  - close04 8y ago
    Whatever action it is, it's triggered by your intention and your button press. You close a circuit for a very specific action and this tells a microcontroller to start counting a (random) number of seconds before initiating the exact action you intended. This is how all electronics work. In this case you don't start the device, you just start the electronic timer of the device. At least start that timer the day before. Maybe if your oven just turned itself on randomly and you quickly ran to put the pot in... It would probably be served a lot better by a digital assistant that you could tell to do things, as long as that's not considered a "slave". This just feels like a "trick". As it stands today you turn on one device instead of another. And you certainly do the "work" part of the "you shall not do any work".

Gracana 8y ago

I always find these things kind of funny. How important are these rules if god is so easily tricked?

firic 8y ago
God is not tricked. There is no restriction against cooking on Shabbat. There are restrictions against eg. making a fire and building. If you can somehow cook without doing any of those things, then there is nothing wrong with it.
- Gracana 8y ago
  I was talking about this: "when touching a button the effect is delayed by a few seconds so you're not technically getting any result from touching the button while still getting the effect from touching the button."
  - compsciphd 8y ago
    The concept is called Grama and its not universally accepted for these ovens and the like. For the reason you stated, if something is going to happen, just we are not 100% sure exactly when, then some don't consider it grama. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grama_(halacha) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grama_(halacha) Grama really only helps you for rabbinically prohibited actions. (i.e. man made law, man made loophole). Not law that is considered biblical in nature. Most people who wonder about all the "loopholes" don't realize that its talking about what jews considered rabbinic law. to make an analogy, congress can't legislate a loophole around the constitution, they can legislate loopholes around their own laws.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- squozzer 8y ago
  It all sounds a bit legalistic. I say that with a grin.

close04 8y ago

Don’t you trigger an electronic counter by pressing the button?

mbreese 8y ago
If I recall, some of these modes activate a random timer, so you don’t directly trigger an action. More like indicating that an action should occur, without directly starting it.
- coaxial 8y ago
  Yes, the delay is random. According to the manual, this was validated with experts Rabbis and is congruent with the way things should be done on Sabbath.
  - user3359 8y ago
    "it is in God's hands... As long as it's within the next 10 seconds"
    - close04 8y ago
      People will always interpret the words of their God to better fit their own needs. They're having a hard enough time as it is to keep people close to religion. This means artificially taking down some of the barriers that no longer fit in today's world view is a must. I mean breaking this commandment in particular is punishable by death. So I guess there isn't much choice if the religion is to have any followers. But I'm waiting for the first person that, after consulting with expert clergy, comes at the conclusion that all they did was press the trigger. The gun and projectile did the rest, with great assistance from the target who decided to be in the line of sight :).
- close04 8y ago
  Whatever action it is, it's triggered by your intention and your button press. You close a circuit for a very specific action and this tells a microcontroller to start counting a (random) number of seconds before initiating the exact action you intended. This is how all electronics work. In this case you don't start the device, you just start the electronic timer of the device. At least start that timer the day before. Maybe if your oven just turned itself on randomly and you quickly ran to put the pot in... It would probably be served a lot better by a digital assistant that you could tell to do things, as long as that's not considered a "slave". This just feels like a "trick". As it stands today you turn on one device instead of another. And you certainly do the "work" part of the "you shall not do any work".