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> I feel threatened by people who are not trained to use guns. This is a strained and bizarre argument and requires unpacking for me to understand, unless you

> I feel threatened by people who are not trained to use guns. This is a strained and bizarre argument and requires unpacking for me to understand, unless you meant it as hyperbole. I enjoy shooting safely, but I can't imagine feeling threatened by someone's lack of firearms training in an office workplace.

jonathankoren 8y ago
The only way to feel threatened by some e without firearms training is if the untrained person is armed. Then that’s very reasonable. Same as I’m not threatened that no one at my work knows how serve fugu, but it doesn’t matter, because they’re not serving me fugu.
- etrautmann 8y ago
  ...which proves the point. If you feel threatened by someone else's lack of training, it's only in the context where they are carrying a gun to work. I would hope that most reasonable people would agree that the majority of tech employees would feel less threatened by non-carrying coworkers than the opposite.
masonic 8y ago
This is a strained and bizarre argument Perhaps a rephrasing would help. If you don't know how guns operate, then you are incapable of rendering it safe or even recognizing if it can be fired. (Thankfully, Lynette Fromme didn't know how to operate an autoloader, else Gerald Ford probably would have been killed.) An analogy: even if one doesn't care to drive, one should know how to shut off an ignition and know how to operate the brakes in an emergency.
- etrautmann 8y ago
  Right - which makes it completely irrelevant for workplace safety. If I'm a Twitter employee, I should not need to know how to "render a firearm safe" for my fellow employees to feel non-threatened. For cops or security contractors, sure
inetknght 8y ago
Allow me to clarify. This is kind've a ramble and I am stretching different related thoughts together. I live in Texas now. Before moving here, I lived in California. There's a stark difference of opinion about guns between the states. In California, guns are... well they're definitely not part of the culture there. I never fired a gun until I was 23 years old and hung out with a friend-in-law at their home away from the city. A few years later I bought my first gun and went to the range. The people at the range were somewhat reserved, somewhat mocking about lack of experience. They definitely didn't appreciate people who didn't know all the rules like the back of their hand. That definitely doesn't encourage someone to learn how to handle a gun. Interesting, yes? So, being in Texas, where guns are part of the culture in many places, it's also interesting to find people who've never fired a gun. It's scary to find people who think that the only people who should own a gun are the armed forces. In my experience, that latter is a statement generally comes from people who are naive about US history and their government; or they have been emotionally damaged by guns which I can respect even if I disagree. However, someone who's not been around guns, doesn't know the difference between various "basic" types of guns (automatic, semi-automatic, manual; rifle, shotgun, pistol; etc) makes me feel threatened when they start talking about what you can or can not do with a gun. The information they talk about is usually wrong and they're not usually willing to listen to corrections. I work with scientists; someone who isn't trained and isn't willing to be trained is a threat to science. Finally, someone who talks about something with no training or experience is worse than someone who does. Imagine a computer user who's not trained to write software but talks as if databases are "the worst". Sure you could ignore them. But remember that that person can also talk to more people than just you. They could be spewing the same nonsense to their government representatives. If the representative or political leader doesn't have two brain cells (which seems common these days), they're just as likely to write bad legislation or policy about computers^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hguns. Having lived in both California and Texas I can definitely say that I've seen many opinions first-hand. There's no "right" opinion. There's definitely wrong opinions though.
- jbob2000 8y ago
  I've fired guns too, it's a nice adrenalin rush and I felt very powerful. Uncomfortably powerful. It's ok if you like these feelings, but your comments seem like thin justifications. You can get these feelings without rampant gun ownership.

jonathankoren 8y ago

The only way to feel threatened by some e without firearms training is if the untrained person is armed. Then that’s very reasonable. Same as I’m not threatened that no one at my work knows how serve fugu, but it doesn’t matter, because they’re not serving me fugu.

etrautmann 8y ago
...which proves the point. If you feel threatened by someone else's lack of training, it's only in the context where they are carrying a gun to work. I would hope that most reasonable people would agree that the majority of tech employees would feel less threatened by non-carrying coworkers than the opposite.

masonic 8y ago

This is a strained and bizarre argument Perhaps a rephrasing would help. If you don't know how guns operate, then you are incapable of rendering it safe or even recognizing if it can be fired. (Thankfully, Lynette Fromme didn't know how to operate an autoloader, else Gerald Ford probably would have been killed.) An analogy: even if one doesn't care to drive, one should know how to shut off an ignition and know how to operate the brakes in an emergency.

etrautmann 8y ago
Right - which makes it completely irrelevant for workplace safety. If I'm a Twitter employee, I should not need to know how to "render a firearm safe" for my fellow employees to feel non-threatened. For cops or security contractors, sure

inetknght 8y ago

Allow me to clarify. This is kind've a ramble and I am stretching different related thoughts together. I live in Texas now. Before moving here, I lived in California. There's a stark difference of opinion about guns between the states. In California, guns are... well they're definitely not part of the culture there. I never fired a gun until I was 23 years old and hung out with a friend-in-law at their home away from the city. A few years later I bought my first gun and went to the range. The people at the range were somewhat reserved, somewhat mocking about lack of experience. They definitely didn't appreciate people who didn't know all the rules like the back of their hand. That definitely doesn't encourage someone to learn how to handle a gun. Interesting, yes? So, being in Texas, where guns are part of the culture in many places, it's also interesting to find people who've never fired a gun. It's scary to find people who think that the only people who should own a gun are the armed forces. In my experience, that latter is a statement generally comes from people who are naive about US history and their government; or they have been emotionally damaged by guns which I can respect even if I disagree. However, someone who's not been around guns, doesn't know the difference between various "basic" types of guns (automatic, semi-automatic, manual; rifle, shotgun, pistol; etc) makes me feel threatened when they start talking about what you can or can not do with a gun. The information they talk about is usually wrong and they're not usually willing to listen to corrections. I work with scientists; someone who isn't trained and isn't willing to be trained is a threat to science. Finally, someone who talks about something with no training or experience is worse than someone who does. Imagine a computer user who's not trained to write software but talks as if databases are "the worst". Sure you could ignore them. But remember that that person can also talk to more people than just you. They could be spewing the same nonsense to their government representatives. If the representative or political leader doesn't have two brain cells (which seems common these days), they're just as likely to write bad legislation or policy about computers^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hguns. Having lived in both California and Texas I can definitely say that I've seen many opinions first-hand. There's no "right" opinion. There's definitely wrong opinions though.

jbob2000 8y ago
I've fired guns too, it's a nice adrenalin rush and I felt very powerful. Uncomfortably powerful. It's ok if you like these feelings, but your comments seem like thin justifications. You can get these feelings without rampant gun ownership.