7 ms·

> I just don't seem to be in Apple's target market anymore. I'm not sure why it's so hard for people to understand that Apple's market is people who want to be

by 21 8y ago

> I just don't seem to be in Apple's target market anymore. I'm not sure why it's so hard for people to understand that Apple's market is people who want to be cool. They don't sell hardware devices, they sell coolness. These people don't care at all about how the phone/laptop is. It doesn't matter that you only have USB-A adapters or mini-jack headphones, if Apple says that the new cool is USB-C and AirPods, you are going to buy that and then snicker at people using the "old stuff". It's like in the joke: the only thing worse than not having an iPhone is having last year's one.

lostlogin 8y ago
Not if it has Touch ID, is a bit smaller and has no face scanning. Arguably a bit older is the sweet spot as then you have a headphone jack too.
roymurdock 8y ago
It wasn't always like this. I used Windows laptops from various OEMs up until I switched to a Macbook in 2011. The quality of the software (all the UX/UI beauty and reliability of Snow Leopard, iTunes used to be good) and hardware (touchpad was revolutionary, backlit keys, great keyboard layout for toggling sounds/brightness, built-in HD camera) was YEARS ahead of the competition, which is just now starting to catch up. If you look at the market now, all the laptops look like knock-offs of Macbook design, and the software is evolving to be that way as well. Apple was ahead of its time for usability and a frustration-free experience, but it's a stretch to say any of their new products are cool. Apple Watch/Airpods/iPhone 10X SE are not cool...they just signal that you have a lot of disposable income
- abraham_lincoln 8y ago
  10.6.8 was the best.
  - roymurdock 8y ago
    pour one out for a dead homie then take a double shot if you're going to try to use the new versions of itunes
- Phrodo_00 8y ago
  > iTunes used to be good I'm always surprised by this. I remember trying to use iTunes back when I had an iPod Video and it was a piece of garbage. I guess it's different in osx?
  - sokoloff 8y ago
    I find iTunes to be fairly close to garbage on OS X as well. Maybe if I used it more, I’d learn it, but at this point, I mostly just use it to backup and restore iDevices. Anything past that, and it’s even money whether I’ll need to google to figure out how to get what I want onto or off the phone using iTunes.
- dade_ 8y ago
  Now that I am stuck with Windows again, at least Lenovo still knows how to make a great keyboard, and I will note that the trackpad is fantastic (Still second to Mac so far though)
  - binomialxenon 8y ago
    In my opinion, Thinkpads have always held the #1 spot in the keyboard category, over Apple and others. Apple does have arguably the best trackpad, but the Trackpoint wins out for me. I wouldn't want a laptop without one.
- MiddleEndian 8y ago
  I also agree that OS X 10.6 was the pinnacle of consumer operating systems. Nowadays I use a Surface Book. Microsoft finally knocked off the Macbook successfully and stuck in a tablet with a pen and access to the full desktop OS. Windows 10 is not bad once you disable every form of notification.
Animats 8y ago
Although this was modded down, he's right. Here's the history of Cadillac tail fins of the 1950s and 1960s.[1][2] Each year, the tailfins were re-designed to make the previous year look un-cool. Apple follows that approach. The new models are not better, just different. (The 1959 Cadillac Eldorado [3] was "peak tailfin". The tailfins almost reached the height of the windshield. We'll have to see how far Apple pushes their "notch".) [1] https://justamericanautomobiles.com/cadillac-tail-fins-1948-1959/ https://justamericanautomobiles.com/cadillac-tail-fins-1948-... [2] https://justamericanautomobiles.com/cadillac-tail-fins-1960-1969/ https://justamericanautomobiles.com/cadillac-tail-fins-1960-... [3] https://jalopnik.com/5915106/1959-cadillac-eldorado-biarritz-convertible-is-one-rare-drop-top/ https://jalopnik.com/5915106/1959-cadillac-eldorado-biarritz...
- Eric_WVGG 8y ago
  He'd have a point if they weren't making the best hardware, highest performing chips, the most ethical company regarding privacy and security, or the best operating system (that's the one mark on my list that I'll admit is subjective). Unless your definition of "being cool" is wanting the best, I'll take that.
  - kiriakasis 8y ago
    (silly comment ahead, but it is contextually relevant) the best would have a headphone jack
britch 8y ago
That's kind of reductionistic. Most liquor, cars, technology and clothes are sold as coolness. I agree Apple leans into it heavily, but so do Samsung and Google (although less effectively). I don't think coolness is all of it. I've talked with a lot of people about why they stick with Apple. Why the pay so much and then pay even more money for accessories. No one really has a compelling answer they just shrug and say "it's what I've been using" or "I'm bought in." I think people are aware of the ways their being nickeled-and-dimed, I just don't think people care enough to switch. And I kind of don't blame them. Switching ecosystems is a lot of work. If your whole music library and playlist collection is on Apple music, exporting it to Spotify is time consuming and confusing, you may not even know you can do it with a tool. You'd also have to learn a new OS, re-buy any apps you've previously purchased. It's a pretty big hurdle to switch.
- gaius 8y ago
  No one really has a compelling answer they just shrug and say "it's what I've been using" or "I'm bought in." I made the jump from MBP to Surface and I’m very happy with that choice. Great screen and keyboard, thin and light enough for anyone reasonable, swapped VirtualBox for WSL and that’s great too. Still waiting to see any of these ads people claim W10 is infested with too.
screye 8y ago
I have said this for a while . Especially since the era of Jony Ive. Apple is now a fashion & lifestyle company. It sells the brand first and foremost. Every thing else is secondary. As long as people keep buying MacBooks in absurd numbers, apple will keep going down this path. Do these people need a $2000 MacBook to edit photos, consume media and work on office ? No. Do they still buy MacBooks ? Yes. And there you have it.
- Bud 8y ago
  "Absurd" numbers? Total Mac laptop sales are tiny compared to PC laptops bought in mass numbers and used basically to run Chrome and Excel. You're also of course distorting the average sale price of Apple laptops, which is way under $2000. Apple sells user privacy and products that work better and last twice as long as the competition. Everything else is secondary. As an aside, you don't seem to have mastery of when the Jony Ive era began, at least not if you are referencing a post about the iPhone SE being the best.
  - NeedMoreTea 8y ago
    There's really been two Ive eras though. Before and after he stopped taking nearly all design cues from Braun and Dieter Ram's work. The iconic designs were from before.
    - walterbell 8y ago
      Could you share pointers to their work?
      - NeedMoreTea 8y ago
        Start with this for the obvious ones seen in Apple's products: https://www.cultofmac.com/188753/the-braun-products-that-inspired-apples-iconic-designs-gallery/ https://www.cultofmac.com/188753/the-braun-products-that-ins... The Design Museum has a better background of his career. You should be able to spot a few more borrowed ones, and not just by Apple. https://designmuseum.org/designers/dieter-rams https://designmuseum.org/designers/dieter-rams
cs02rm0 8y ago
You're not wrong. I just wish they'd decide that quality, reasonably priced hardware without gimmicks was the new cool.

by 21 8y ago

lostlogin 8y ago

Not if it has Touch ID, is a bit smaller and has no face scanning. Arguably a bit older is the sweet spot as then you have a headphone jack too.

roymurdock 8y ago

It wasn't always like this. I used Windows laptops from various OEMs up until I switched to a Macbook in 2011. The quality of the software (all the UX/UI beauty and reliability of Snow Leopard, iTunes used to be good) and hardware (touchpad was revolutionary, backlit keys, great keyboard layout for toggling sounds/brightness, built-in HD camera) was YEARS ahead of the competition, which is just now starting to catch up. If you look at the market now, all the laptops look like knock-offs of Macbook design, and the software is evolving to be that way as well. Apple was ahead of its time for usability and a frustration-free experience, but it's a stretch to say any of their new products are cool. Apple Watch/Airpods/iPhone 10X SE are not cool...they just signal that you have a lot of disposable income

abraham_lincoln 8y ago
10.6.8 was the best.
- roymurdock 8y ago
  pour one out for a dead homie then take a double shot if you're going to try to use the new versions of itunes
Phrodo_00 8y ago
> iTunes used to be good I'm always surprised by this. I remember trying to use iTunes back when I had an iPod Video and it was a piece of garbage. I guess it's different in osx?
- sokoloff 8y ago
  I find iTunes to be fairly close to garbage on OS X as well. Maybe if I used it more, I’d learn it, but at this point, I mostly just use it to backup and restore iDevices. Anything past that, and it’s even money whether I’ll need to google to figure out how to get what I want onto or off the phone using iTunes.
dade_ 8y ago
Now that I am stuck with Windows again, at least Lenovo still knows how to make a great keyboard, and I will note that the trackpad is fantastic (Still second to Mac so far though)
- binomialxenon 8y ago
  In my opinion, Thinkpads have always held the #1 spot in the keyboard category, over Apple and others. Apple does have arguably the best trackpad, but the Trackpoint wins out for me. I wouldn't want a laptop without one.
MiddleEndian 8y ago
I also agree that OS X 10.6 was the pinnacle of consumer operating systems. Nowadays I use a Surface Book. Microsoft finally knocked off the Macbook successfully and stuck in a tablet with a pen and access to the full desktop OS. Windows 10 is not bad once you disable every form of notification.

Animats 8y ago

Although this was modded down, he's right. Here's the history of Cadillac tail fins of the 1950s and 1960s.[1][2] Each year, the tailfins were re-designed to make the previous year look un-cool. Apple follows that approach. The new models are not better, just different. (The 1959 Cadillac Eldorado [3] was "peak tailfin". The tailfins almost reached the height of the windshield. We'll have to see how far Apple pushes their "notch".) [1] https://justamericanautomobiles.com/cadillac-tail-fins-1948-1959/ https://justamericanautomobiles.com/cadillac-tail-fins-1948-... [2] https://justamericanautomobiles.com/cadillac-tail-fins-1960-1969/ https://justamericanautomobiles.com/cadillac-tail-fins-1960-... [3] https://jalopnik.com/5915106/1959-cadillac-eldorado-biarritz-convertible-is-one-rare-drop-top/ https://jalopnik.com/5915106/1959-cadillac-eldorado-biarritz...

Eric_WVGG 8y ago
He'd have a point if they weren't making the best hardware, highest performing chips, the most ethical company regarding privacy and security, or the best operating system (that's the one mark on my list that I'll admit is subjective). Unless your definition of "being cool" is wanting the best, I'll take that.
- kiriakasis 8y ago
  (silly comment ahead, but it is contextually relevant) the best would have a headphone jack

britch 8y ago

That's kind of reductionistic. Most liquor, cars, technology and clothes are sold as coolness. I agree Apple leans into it heavily, but so do Samsung and Google (although less effectively). I don't think coolness is all of it. I've talked with a lot of people about why they stick with Apple. Why the pay so much and then pay even more money for accessories. No one really has a compelling answer they just shrug and say "it's what I've been using" or "I'm bought in." I think people are aware of the ways their being nickeled-and-dimed, I just don't think people care enough to switch. And I kind of don't blame them. Switching ecosystems is a lot of work. If your whole music library and playlist collection is on Apple music, exporting it to Spotify is time consuming and confusing, you may not even know you can do it with a tool. You'd also have to learn a new OS, re-buy any apps you've previously purchased. It's a pretty big hurdle to switch.

gaius 8y ago
No one really has a compelling answer they just shrug and say "it's what I've been using" or "I'm bought in." I made the jump from MBP to Surface and I’m very happy with that choice. Great screen and keyboard, thin and light enough for anyone reasonable, swapped VirtualBox for WSL and that’s great too. Still waiting to see any of these ads people claim W10 is infested with too.

screye 8y ago

I have said this for a while . Especially since the era of Jony Ive. Apple is now a fashion & lifestyle company. It sells the brand first and foremost. Every thing else is secondary. As long as people keep buying MacBooks in absurd numbers, apple will keep going down this path. Do these people need a $2000 MacBook to edit photos, consume media and work on office ? No. Do they still buy MacBooks ? Yes. And there you have it.

Bud 8y ago
"Absurd" numbers? Total Mac laptop sales are tiny compared to PC laptops bought in mass numbers and used basically to run Chrome and Excel. You're also of course distorting the average sale price of Apple laptops, which is way under $2000. Apple sells user privacy and products that work better and last twice as long as the competition. Everything else is secondary. As an aside, you don't seem to have mastery of when the Jony Ive era began, at least not if you are referencing a post about the iPhone SE being the best.
- NeedMoreTea 8y ago
  There's really been two Ive eras though. Before and after he stopped taking nearly all design cues from Braun and Dieter Ram's work. The iconic designs were from before.
  - walterbell 8y ago
    Could you share pointers to their work?
    - NeedMoreTea 8y ago
      Start with this for the obvious ones seen in Apple's products: https://www.cultofmac.com/188753/the-braun-products-that-inspired-apples-iconic-designs-gallery/ https://www.cultofmac.com/188753/the-braun-products-that-ins... The Design Museum has a better background of his career. You should be able to spot a few more borrowed ones, and not just by Apple. https://designmuseum.org/designers/dieter-rams https://designmuseum.org/designers/dieter-rams

cs02rm0 8y ago

You're not wrong. I just wish they'd decide that quality, reasonably priced hardware without gimmicks was the new cool.