5 ms·

so it seems like Drones is one of the first big nascent industries, SV utterly lost to China b/c of their dominance of manufacturing?

flyinglizard 8y ago
SV didn't lose to China; everyone lost to DJI. Their competence was staggering (I think they kind of slowed down lately being that they're so far out from everyone; throttling their innovation a bit). If DJI represents the future of Chinese corporations[0], many people on the other side of the ocean should be very wary. [0] edited from "products". In fact what's so impressive with DJI is not just the products themselves, but also the design, marketing and branding, which is kind of an Apple/GoPro hybrid. They are not just creating immense value - they are packaging it the right way.
- jakelarkin 8y ago
  this is my concern as well. on the hardware side, a Chinese startup can iterate faster & be the lowest cost producer. if design, UX, software, marketing is on par with SV/US competitors. SV is toast (in that industry)
- smacktoward 8y ago
  > In fact what's so impressive with DJI is not just the products themselves, but also the design, marketing and branding, which is kind of an Apple/GoPro hybrid. They are not just creating immense value - they are packaging it the right way. This is what always struck me as so short-sighted about Western corporations offshoring their manufacturing. Japan and the Asian Tigers proved that it's possible for nations to successfully climb the value chain, starting off by doing low-skilled work and then using the experience gained from that to gradually take over more and more of the overall product development process. China is just taking that approach and applying it at a larger scale than anyone has ever done before. When a company like Apple contracts out its manufacturing to a Chinese firm, it's betting that Apple will always be able to produce better design and marketing than that Chinese firm can. But based on history, that doesn't strike me as a very good bet. Eventually the Chinese firm will climb high enough on the value chain where they don't need Apple's designers and marketers to make objects that sell anymore. The Western companies are training their own replacements.
  - ItsMe000001 8y ago
    Yeah, but that's the problem of the next CEO and not this one, and all the smart investors want to take anything they can get now and simply jump ship when they see something dark on the horizon. The only ones screwed are those with not much of a voice in leading the company, and/or lack of ability to move themselves elsewhere as easily as big capital can. I think they have all been acting perfectly rationally. After all, working "for the common good" is not anyone's goal, and according to the leading religion - or economic theory - that is perfectly alright and desirable, because invisible hand... I don't think keeping companies around for very long still is a goal of investors other than family businesses.
  - toss1 8y ago
    >>short-sighted about Western corporations offshoring their manufacturing EXACTLY! While the western corporations think they're taking advantage of cheap Chinese labor, the Chinese are actually taking advantage of our weakness for short-term profits over long-term investment and getting us to sellout IP in the bargain. For western corporations & governments, one of the most historically stupid geostrategic moves ever.
  - kermittd 8y ago
    Hmm that's very interesting. Reminds me of what Netflix did to Hollywood but played out internationally. China (Netflix) takes what the United States(Hollywood) doesn't want to do/finds little value in. Once China (Netflix) has a foundation of manufacturing know-how (media catalog)they move up the chain to more complex technical (media) products.
  - ungerik 8y ago
    Why worry about the long term, when you can get rich in the short term? After you are rich, long term is someone else’s problem.
- justicezyx 8y ago
  > many people on the other side of the ocean should be very wary. People should be excited. If Chinese companies all behave like DJI, that's a blessing to everyone.
- person_of_color 8y ago
  How many state subsidies went to DJI?
- rasz 8y ago
  >SV didn't lose to China; everyone lost to DJI. Their competence was staggering If anyone is interested look up "robomasters" for a DJI recruitment competition running with teams from >100 Chinese Universities.
- savrajsingh 8y ago
  DJI is super interesting. They just have the best products. There was a time when they did not have the best products. Super curious as to how they leapfrogged everyone so quickly.
Fordec 8y ago
SV is good at Software, UI/UX and, historically anyway, Silicon. But it can't do end hardware. And the stuff it has been successful at is designing consumer hardware but outsourcing the manufacturing to another country. Arduino is Italian. Samsung is South Korean. TSMC is Thai. ARM and RPi is British. Shenzhen is the hardware place to be now. It didn't even steal that crown from SV. It stole it from Akihabara.
- sardonicbryan 8y ago
  The T in TSMC is Taiwan, not Thailand.
- WillPostForFood 8y ago
  But it can't do end hardware. There is a great history of end hardware in SV. It has moved off shore chasing lower costs and fewer regulations. Great video tour of the Mac factory in Fremont: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUjyh2Fhnuk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUjyh2Fhnuk
- jpm_sd 8y ago
  Your examples make no sense. Arduino and Raspberry Pi are toys for hobbyists. Samsung is a colossal conglomerate that makes thousands of different consumer products. TSMC is a semiconductor fab, and ARM makes... specifications?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

flyinglizard 8y ago

SV didn't lose to China; everyone lost to DJI. Their competence was staggering (I think they kind of slowed down lately being that they're so far out from everyone; throttling their innovation a bit). If DJI represents the future of Chinese corporations[0], many people on the other side of the ocean should be very wary. [0] edited from "products". In fact what's so impressive with DJI is not just the products themselves, but also the design, marketing and branding, which is kind of an Apple/GoPro hybrid. They are not just creating immense value - they are packaging it the right way.

jakelarkin 8y ago
this is my concern as well. on the hardware side, a Chinese startup can iterate faster & be the lowest cost producer. if design, UX, software, marketing is on par with SV/US competitors. SV is toast (in that industry)
smacktoward 8y ago
> In fact what's so impressive with DJI is not just the products themselves, but also the design, marketing and branding, which is kind of an Apple/GoPro hybrid. They are not just creating immense value - they are packaging it the right way. This is what always struck me as so short-sighted about Western corporations offshoring their manufacturing. Japan and the Asian Tigers proved that it's possible for nations to successfully climb the value chain, starting off by doing low-skilled work and then using the experience gained from that to gradually take over more and more of the overall product development process. China is just taking that approach and applying it at a larger scale than anyone has ever done before. When a company like Apple contracts out its manufacturing to a Chinese firm, it's betting that Apple will always be able to produce better design and marketing than that Chinese firm can. But based on history, that doesn't strike me as a very good bet. Eventually the Chinese firm will climb high enough on the value chain where they don't need Apple's designers and marketers to make objects that sell anymore. The Western companies are training their own replacements.
- ItsMe000001 8y ago
  Yeah, but that's the problem of the next CEO and not this one, and all the smart investors want to take anything they can get now and simply jump ship when they see something dark on the horizon. The only ones screwed are those with not much of a voice in leading the company, and/or lack of ability to move themselves elsewhere as easily as big capital can. I think they have all been acting perfectly rationally. After all, working "for the common good" is not anyone's goal, and according to the leading religion - or economic theory - that is perfectly alright and desirable, because invisible hand... I don't think keeping companies around for very long still is a goal of investors other than family businesses.
- toss1 8y ago
  >>short-sighted about Western corporations offshoring their manufacturing EXACTLY! While the western corporations think they're taking advantage of cheap Chinese labor, the Chinese are actually taking advantage of our weakness for short-term profits over long-term investment and getting us to sellout IP in the bargain. For western corporations & governments, one of the most historically stupid geostrategic moves ever.
- kermittd 8y ago
  Hmm that's very interesting. Reminds me of what Netflix did to Hollywood but played out internationally. China (Netflix) takes what the United States(Hollywood) doesn't want to do/finds little value in. Once China (Netflix) has a foundation of manufacturing know-how (media catalog)they move up the chain to more complex technical (media) products.
- ungerik 8y ago
  Why worry about the long term, when you can get rich in the short term? After you are rich, long term is someone else’s problem.
justicezyx 8y ago
> many people on the other side of the ocean should be very wary. People should be excited. If Chinese companies all behave like DJI, that's a blessing to everyone.
person_of_color 8y ago
How many state subsidies went to DJI?
rasz 8y ago
>SV didn't lose to China; everyone lost to DJI. Their competence was staggering If anyone is interested look up "robomasters" for a DJI recruitment competition running with teams from >100 Chinese Universities.
savrajsingh 8y ago
DJI is super interesting. They just have the best products. There was a time when they did not have the best products. Super curious as to how they leapfrogged everyone so quickly.

Fordec 8y ago

SV is good at Software, UI/UX and, historically anyway, Silicon. But it can't do end hardware. And the stuff it has been successful at is designing consumer hardware but outsourcing the manufacturing to another country. Arduino is Italian. Samsung is South Korean. TSMC is Thai. ARM and RPi is British. Shenzhen is the hardware place to be now. It didn't even steal that crown from SV. It stole it from Akihabara.

sardonicbryan 8y ago
The T in TSMC is Taiwan, not Thailand.
WillPostForFood 8y ago
But it can't do end hardware. There is a great history of end hardware in SV. It has moved off shore chasing lower costs and fewer regulations. Great video tour of the Mac factory in Fremont: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUjyh2Fhnuk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUjyh2Fhnuk
jpm_sd 8y ago
Your examples make no sense. Arduino and Raspberry Pi are toys for hobbyists. Samsung is a colossal conglomerate that makes thousands of different consumer products. TSMC is a semiconductor fab, and ARM makes... specifications?
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]