4 ms·

>where it's in everyone's immediate individual interest to work just a little bit longer, but the end result is that everyone has to work more for the same rewa

>where it's in everyone's immediate individual interest to work just a little bit longer, but the end result is that everyone has to work more for the same reward If everyone is working more, more value is being created in total. So it's not zero-sum. You might then say "Yes, sure, but is working more hours to buy more things really better than a culture where we work less and spend more time eating dinner with our families?", which I would agree with, but is more of a cultural comment than an economic comment.

toomuchtodo 8y ago
Perhaps the social taboo needs to be against the continual enrichment of the ownership class with that additional value being created by everyone working more?
DanAndersen 8y ago
Next aeon article: "Let's bring back 'thou shalt not covet' as an act against rampant capitalism"!
frgtpsswrdlame 8y ago
>If everyone is working more, more value is being created in total. If (in a simple example) everyone works 40 hour weeks but then they start working 40hrs + 10hrs of gig work, if you remain just a 40hr worker you will fall behind not just them, but also where you were previously. A pie growing does not mean your piece grows, in fact situations where your piece is shrinking faster than the pie grows are the exact motivation that can lead to tragedy of the commons. I'd say this example is actually a perfect example of tragedy of the commons, to twist your comment a bit to fit the canonical example given in econ classes: If everyone is fishing more, more value is being created in total. So it's not zero-sum. You might then say "Yes, sure, but is fishing more really better than a culture where we fish less?", which I would agree with, but is more a cultural comment than an economic comment. I hope that illustrates why it actually is more of an economic comment than a cultural one. Economics is more than just the rhetoric of doing positive-sum things.
lukeschlather 8y ago
> If everyone is working more, more value is being created in total. That's often false. It's very easy to create negative value, and it becomes easier the less you rest. It's also hard to measure when additional work starts creating negative value, so you can easily end up in a downward spiral of productivity as people compete for not just illusory but counterproductive gains.
- natalyarostova 8y ago
  Hmm, I was going to disagree with you, but as I reflect on my time in Tokyo I have to admit you're right.
s73v3r_ 8y ago
"If everyone is working more, more value is being created in total." That's not necessarily true, and more importantly, even if it is, most of that value is not going to the people doing the actual work.

toomuchtodo 8y ago

Perhaps the social taboo needs to be against the continual enrichment of the ownership class with that additional value being created by everyone working more?

DanAndersen 8y ago

Next aeon article: "Let's bring back 'thou shalt not covet' as an act against rampant capitalism"!

frgtpsswrdlame 8y ago

>If everyone is working more, more value is being created in total. If (in a simple example) everyone works 40 hour weeks but then they start working 40hrs + 10hrs of gig work, if you remain just a 40hr worker you will fall behind not just them, but also where you were previously. A pie growing does not mean your piece grows, in fact situations where your piece is shrinking faster than the pie grows are the exact motivation that can lead to tragedy of the commons. I'd say this example is actually a perfect example of tragedy of the commons, to twist your comment a bit to fit the canonical example given in econ classes: If everyone is fishing more, more value is being created in total. So it's not zero-sum. You might then say "Yes, sure, but is fishing more really better than a culture where we fish less?", which I would agree with, but is more a cultural comment than an economic comment. I hope that illustrates why it actually is more of an economic comment than a cultural one. Economics is more than just the rhetoric of doing positive-sum things.

lukeschlather 8y ago

> If everyone is working more, more value is being created in total. That's often false. It's very easy to create negative value, and it becomes easier the less you rest. It's also hard to measure when additional work starts creating negative value, so you can easily end up in a downward spiral of productivity as people compete for not just illusory but counterproductive gains.

natalyarostova 8y ago
Hmm, I was going to disagree with you, but as I reflect on my time in Tokyo I have to admit you're right.

s73v3r_ 8y ago

"If everyone is working more, more value is being created in total." That's not necessarily true, and more importantly, even if it is, most of that value is not going to the people doing the actual work.