4 ms·

They mean without a traditional physical key.

by tux1968 8y ago

jiveturkey 8y ago
yes but there's no difference in this case between a traditional key and an electronic key. A key, of some sort, was required. He didn't do some fancy hack of the car as if he could walk up to any Tesla anywhere and steal it.
- jstarfish 8y ago
  It seems that by your logic, any bypass of a car's authentication system functions as a surrogate key. Punching out an ignition column with a screwdriver and jumping wires is no more having a key than calling customer service and fooling them into transferring remote control to you. In all cases, you don't have what is commonly understood to be "a key," yet you leave with what you came for. The common vernacular has an accepted definition of what it means to require a key to do something. Given that this is a criminal matter, you'd have a hard time convincing a jury of yokels to share your understanding.
  - jiveturkey 8y ago
    He didn't (locally) bypass the car's authentication system. As far as the car is concerned, he used a proper key. I'm not sure what your comment about a jury of yokel's refers to. I clearly do not mean that he didn't actually steal the car. It doesn't matter if that was with a key or not. "without a key" is clearly meant to imply that he walked right up. But what he actually did is the equivalent of copying an existing key. IOW, he had a "key" made.
    - jstarfish 8y ago
      To be clear, I do think your point/distinction is valid in a technical sense, but not relevant to explanation of the crime. He walked right up, made a phone call and Tesla support literally handed him the car. What encrypted bits got shuffled around to make this happen are secondary to the fact that he did steal the car (and yes, had Tesla fabricate an ethereal key) using nothing but his phone.
- mikeash 8y ago
  “Key” in the context of cars means a long thin metal rectangle with notches cut out on the side matching the pattern encoded in the lock cylinder.
- bobthepanda 8y ago
  > He didn't do some fancy hack of the car as if he could walk up to any Tesla anywhere and steal it. That makes this all the more concerning. You can't social engineer technical support to give you a new keyfob in a time that would be practical enough to steal a car. And in fact, if he could socially engineer his way into one car, he can do it to all of them.

They mean without a traditional physical key.

yes but there's no difference in this case between a traditional key and an electronic key. A key, of some sort, was required. He didn't do some fancy hack of the car as if he could walk up to any Tesla anywhere and steal it.

jstarfish 8y ago
It seems that by your logic, any bypass of a car's authentication system functions as a surrogate key. Punching out an ignition column with a screwdriver and jumping wires is no more having a key than calling customer service and fooling them into transferring remote control to you. In all cases, you don't have what is commonly understood to be "a key," yet you leave with what you came for. The common vernacular has an accepted definition of what it means to require a key to do something. Given that this is a criminal matter, you'd have a hard time convincing a jury of yokels to share your understanding.
- jiveturkey 8y ago
  He didn't (locally) bypass the car's authentication system. As far as the car is concerned, he used a proper key. I'm not sure what your comment about a jury of yokel's refers to. I clearly do not mean that he didn't actually steal the car. It doesn't matter if that was with a key or not. "without a key" is clearly meant to imply that he walked right up. But what he actually did is the equivalent of copying an existing key. IOW, he had a "key" made.
  - jstarfish 8y ago
    To be clear, I do think your point/distinction is valid in a technical sense, but not relevant to explanation of the crime. He walked right up, made a phone call and Tesla support literally handed him the car. What encrypted bits got shuffled around to make this happen are secondary to the fact that he did steal the car (and yes, had Tesla fabricate an ethereal key) using nothing but his phone.
mikeash 8y ago
“Key” in the context of cars means a long thin metal rectangle with notches cut out on the side matching the pattern encoded in the lock cylinder.
bobthepanda 8y ago
> He didn't do some fancy hack of the car as if he could walk up to any Tesla anywhere and steal it. That makes this all the more concerning. You can't social engineer technical support to give you a new keyfob in a time that would be practical enough to steal a car. And in fact, if he could socially engineer his way into one car, he can do it to all of them.