3 ms·

This is it exactly. I'm really kind of tired of the "git demands you understand the concepts and the model" excuse because that really isn't what's going on.

This is it exactly. I'm really kind of tired of the "git demands you understand the concepts and the model" excuse because that really isn't what's going on. It's just a poor interface with an un-intuitive set of commands that are organized according to what makes sense to the person who developed the software rather than what makes sense to a person using the software. Lots of systems demand that you learn the underlying concepts and structures. Indeed, nearly all computer systems demand that when you get to a developer, operations, or admin level. It's actually kind of condescending to keep seeing people repeating that over and over. It's not difficult to understand that git is basically a repository of a repository. If you already understand branching and merging from SVN, it's easy to explain git with a single image[0]. It's still difficult to learn to use git and absolutely nothing about the software eases that transition. Claiming the problem must be with the user and their inability to learn the system should clearly have been incorrect somewhere around 8 years ago when people were still struggling to learn it after it had been out for 5 years. I imagine some day we'll run into a situation that's similar to apt vs apt-get vs aptitude where there are multiple clients that do the same thing, but it's not clear to me if someone will just create a better product before that time comes along (that product is probably the GitHub client). [0]: https://images.osteele.com/2008/git-transport.png https://images.osteele.com/2008/git-transport.png

massaman_yams 8y ago
Another comparison: iptables with its hard-to-remember syntax, vs ufw. As UFW is just a wrapper for iptables, I wonder if there's a real possibly of a Git replacement just being a wrapper that simplifies the syntax and maybe some of the conceptual model.
- mayormcsheese 8y ago
  gitflow is just that
epicide 8y ago
> Claiming the problem must be with the user and their inability to learn the system Please do not put words in my mouth. I agree that the interface could be a lot better and honestly hope it improves. I do not expect this to happen anytime soon so I work with what I've got. That being said, the problems git solves in the way that it does so are tricky to wrap your head around. This is why I push people to learn the concepts, not because I think people are stupid for not committing (heh) a bunch of arbitrary commands to memory. The fact that the interface is so unintuitive is exactly why I like to promote learning the concepts instead of just the commands. Once you understand the concepts (with or without knowing any of the commands), not only is it sometimes easier to remember the commands, it makes things like cheatsheets useful. > Indeed, nearly all computer systems demand that when you get to a developer, operations, or admin level. It's actually kind of condescending to keep seeing people repeating that over and over. Some people, for whatever reason, just don't treat git this way. I've seen plenty of people treat it like they treat tar or some other tool where they just remember a bucket of commands and wonder why nothing ever works. If it's obvious to you, then I apologize for it sounding condescending, but it's just not obvious to everyone.

massaman_yams 8y ago

Another comparison: iptables with its hard-to-remember syntax, vs ufw. As UFW is just a wrapper for iptables, I wonder if there's a real possibly of a Git replacement just being a wrapper that simplifies the syntax and maybe some of the conceptual model.

mayormcsheese 8y ago
gitflow is just that

epicide 8y ago

> Claiming the problem must be with the user and their inability to learn the system Please do not put words in my mouth. I agree that the interface could be a lot better and honestly hope it improves. I do not expect this to happen anytime soon so I work with what I've got. That being said, the problems git solves in the way that it does so are tricky to wrap your head around. This is why I push people to learn the concepts, not because I think people are stupid for not committing (heh) a bunch of arbitrary commands to memory. The fact that the interface is so unintuitive is exactly why I like to promote learning the concepts instead of just the commands. Once you understand the concepts (with or without knowing any of the commands), not only is it sometimes easier to remember the commands, it makes things like cheatsheets useful. > Indeed, nearly all computer systems demand that when you get to a developer, operations, or admin level. It's actually kind of condescending to keep seeing people repeating that over and over. Some people, for whatever reason, just don't treat git this way. I've seen plenty of people treat it like they treat tar or some other tool where they just remember a bucket of commands and wonder why nothing ever works. If it's obvious to you, then I apologize for it sounding condescending, but it's just not obvious to everyone.