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The issues the working class has with large scale immigration are legitimate. Econ 101: adding more supply of some thing (labor) will reduce the price of that t

The issues the working class has with large scale immigration are legitimate. Econ 101: adding more supply of some thing (labor) will reduce the price of that thing (wages).

maxxxxx 8y ago
Another econ 101: some group taking an increasing share of a more or less fixed pie will cause others to get less.
- toasterlovin 8y ago
  They're separate issues. It is not coherent to argue that one problem isn't a problem because another problem exists.
  - maxxxxx 8y ago
    You are 100% right. What I tried to say is that some powerful people are trying to channel economic anxiety into explanations that don't threaten their own power. Being angry about immigration or diversity doesn't really threaten billionaires but being angry about inequality does. So of several problems the propaganda machine picks the most convenient.
munificent 8y ago
> Econ 101: adding more supply of some thing (labor) will reduce the price of that thing (wages). Econ 201: Immigrants are consumers too. Adding more demand for some thing (consumers of products) will increase the price of that thing (wages of producers). Almost everyone agrees that growing the economy is good. When a child is born, we don't lament how that infant will be driving down wages when they reach adulthood. There is nothing different about immigrants. They are full participants in all sides of the economy. The real reason that immigrants are a threat to American workers is because they will accept shittier jobs. They drive down quality of the average job because they are more willing to suffer. But that's not a problem with immigrants, it's a problem with our worker protection laws and how they are enforced. Neither immigrants nor non-immigrants should have to pee in cups to avoid leaving the assembly line, work full time without benefits, have unreported workplace-caused injuries, etc.
- toasterlovin 8y ago
  Do you really believe that you can vastly increase the labor pool without it having adverse effects on labor? Even when you have natural experiments like the Black Death, which reduced the population of Europe by approaching 50% and tremendously improved the prospects of labor? So much so that it ended feudalism.
- sokoloff 8y ago
  > Econ 201: Immigrants are consumers too. Adding more demand for some thing (consumers of products) will increase the price of that thing (wages of producers). Immigrants are always consumers; they also tend to nearly universally be workers. So, they're not increasing demand for products in isolation; they're also increasing the supply of workers.

The issues the working class has with large scale immigration are legitimate. Econ 101: adding more supply of some thing (labor) will reduce the price of that thing (wages).

maxxxxx 8y ago

Another econ 101: some group taking an increasing share of a more or less fixed pie will cause others to get less.

toasterlovin 8y ago
They're separate issues. It is not coherent to argue that one problem isn't a problem because another problem exists.
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  You are 100% right. What I tried to say is that some powerful people are trying to channel economic anxiety into explanations that don't threaten their own power. Being angry about immigration or diversity doesn't really threaten billionaires but being angry about inequality does. So of several problems the propaganda machine picks the most convenient.

munificent 8y ago

> Econ 101: adding more supply of some thing (labor) will reduce the price of that thing (wages). Econ 201: Immigrants are consumers too. Adding more demand for some thing (consumers of products) will increase the price of that thing (wages of producers). Almost everyone agrees that growing the economy is good. When a child is born, we don't lament how that infant will be driving down wages when they reach adulthood. There is nothing different about immigrants. They are full participants in all sides of the economy. The real reason that immigrants are a threat to American workers is because they will accept shittier jobs. They drive down quality of the average job because they are more willing to suffer. But that's not a problem with immigrants, it's a problem with our worker protection laws and how they are enforced. Neither immigrants nor non-immigrants should have to pee in cups to avoid leaving the assembly line, work full time without benefits, have unreported workplace-caused injuries, etc.

toasterlovin 8y ago
Do you really believe that you can vastly increase the labor pool without it having adverse effects on labor? Even when you have natural experiments like the Black Death, which reduced the population of Europe by approaching 50% and tremendously improved the prospects of labor? So much so that it ended feudalism.
sokoloff 8y ago
> Econ 201: Immigrants are consumers too. Adding more demand for some thing (consumers of products) will increase the price of that thing (wages of producers). Immigrants are always consumers; they also tend to nearly universally be workers. So, they're not increasing demand for products in isolation; they're also increasing the supply of workers.