4 ms·

It's often not the cold, but the riding surface. Ice, snow, and water really change the dynamics of riding a bike.

by c0nsumer 8y ago

imgabe 8y ago
The same is true for cars, yet nobody uses that as a reason not to drive a car.
- village-idiot 8y ago
  I’m always shocked how few people swap out for winter tires in appropriate climates. Also distressing was the number of people convinced that all wheel drive made their car safer in the snow.
  - adrianmonk 8y ago
    Isn't it safer, though? I'm not very experienced with this stuff, but one of the issues is having sufficient traction to make it up hills, and all-wheel drive is superior at that. If you have to roll back down a hill and try again with a running start, that may be doable, but that makes things more chaotic and unpredictable on the roads (compared to making it up the first time). In an ideal world, other drivers would be attentive enough to handle it, but in reality not so much. Also, more generally, because static friction is greater than dynamic friction, any time your tires lose grip, you have less control over your car at that moment. All-wheel drive means tires are less likely to lose grip when accelerating / applying thrust.
    - village-idiot 8y ago
      No, it’s more convenient. I personally would argue that AWD can make cars less safe because of the false confidence it provides. The most important thing you can do with a car is brake and turn, as those affect safety the most. All cars brake with all four wheels, drive type has absolutely no effect at all. All modern cars have enough braking power to slide on clean concrete, let alone snow and ice. The only thing you can do to improve braking distance is to change your tires. Steering is only affected by drive type when you’ve got the hammer down, as you may be asking the front tires to propel and steer the car at once (this is partly why FWD cars often understeer). But in a snowy situation you won’t be driving flat out, so which wheels are driving will have little effect on steering, and zero effect if you’re coasting or braking. What AWD is great at is getting you off the line in low traction scenarios, which is convenient. It also means that you can get an AWD car up to speeds that are unwise in the present conditions (remember that steering is two wheeled in almost all cars). The only real advantage that AWD has is that AWD cars are typically heavier than their two wheel drive cousins, and weight absolutely confers safety in snow.
      - wott 8y ago
        > No, it’s more convenient. I personally would argue that AWD can make cars less safe because of the false confidence it provides. > The most important thing you can do with a car is brake and turn, as those affect safety the most. Yep, I could notice that when I was leaving north of arctic circle. Each time my driving mates ended up in the ditch (failing to turn on a crossroad), it was with a 4WD. I tried to explain to them that 4WD does not help to brake and turn (especially when their 4WD land rover/cruiser is 50% to 100% heavier than their regular car), to no avail :-( Luckily most of the landings happened in the snow banks and were relatively smooth, but the lesson was not learned :-( But hey! they finally get to use the 4WD to pull back out of the ditch :-)
      - adrianmonk 8y ago
        I think we really have no argument with each other here because we're talking about two different things: car capabilities vs. overall picture including driver behavior. "AWD vehicles perform better in ice/snow" is a different statement from "you're safer in an AWD vehicle".

It's often not the cold, but the riding surface. Ice, snow, and water really change the dynamics of riding a bike.

imgabe 8y ago

The same is true for cars, yet nobody uses that as a reason not to drive a car.

village-idiot 8y ago
I’m always shocked how few people swap out for winter tires in appropriate climates. Also distressing was the number of people convinced that all wheel drive made their car safer in the snow.
- adrianmonk 8y ago
  Isn't it safer, though? I'm not very experienced with this stuff, but one of the issues is having sufficient traction to make it up hills, and all-wheel drive is superior at that. If you have to roll back down a hill and try again with a running start, that may be doable, but that makes things more chaotic and unpredictable on the roads (compared to making it up the first time). In an ideal world, other drivers would be attentive enough to handle it, but in reality not so much. Also, more generally, because static friction is greater than dynamic friction, any time your tires lose grip, you have less control over your car at that moment. All-wheel drive means tires are less likely to lose grip when accelerating / applying thrust.
  - village-idiot 8y ago
    No, it’s more convenient. I personally would argue that AWD can make cars less safe because of the false confidence it provides. The most important thing you can do with a car is brake and turn, as those affect safety the most. All cars brake with all four wheels, drive type has absolutely no effect at all. All modern cars have enough braking power to slide on clean concrete, let alone snow and ice. The only thing you can do to improve braking distance is to change your tires. Steering is only affected by drive type when you’ve got the hammer down, as you may be asking the front tires to propel and steer the car at once (this is partly why FWD cars often understeer). But in a snowy situation you won’t be driving flat out, so which wheels are driving will have little effect on steering, and zero effect if you’re coasting or braking. What AWD is great at is getting you off the line in low traction scenarios, which is convenient. It also means that you can get an AWD car up to speeds that are unwise in the present conditions (remember that steering is two wheeled in almost all cars). The only real advantage that AWD has is that AWD cars are typically heavier than their two wheel drive cousins, and weight absolutely confers safety in snow.
    - wott 8y ago
      > No, it’s more convenient. I personally would argue that AWD can make cars less safe because of the false confidence it provides. > The most important thing you can do with a car is brake and turn, as those affect safety the most. Yep, I could notice that when I was leaving north of arctic circle. Each time my driving mates ended up in the ditch (failing to turn on a crossroad), it was with a 4WD. I tried to explain to them that 4WD does not help to brake and turn (especially when their 4WD land rover/cruiser is 50% to 100% heavier than their regular car), to no avail :-( Luckily most of the landings happened in the snow banks and were relatively smooth, but the lesson was not learned :-( But hey! they finally get to use the 4WD to pull back out of the ditch :-)
    - adrianmonk 8y ago
      I think we really have no argument with each other here because we're talking about two different things: car capabilities vs. overall picture including driver behavior. "AWD vehicles perform better in ice/snow" is a different statement from "you're safer in an AWD vehicle".