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And creating the infrastructure is wildly unpopular, because typically it involves either taking lanes away from cars, or slowing them down. The initiative to

And creating the infrastructure is wildly unpopular, because typically it involves either taking lanes away from cars, or slowing them down. The initiative to reduce car-pedestrian collisions in LA has stopped because the drivers put pressure on politicians to stop slowing traffic down. Advocates are implying (and sometimes outright saying) that a few dozen deaths a year are an acceptable price to pay for a shorter commute. That's how far we are from solving this problem.

cgoecknerwald 8y ago
I have some hope for the movement that installs a bike path along a restored LA River! [1] [1] https://www.railstotrails.org/trailblog/2017/october/02/bike-path-and-river-restoration-spark-urban-renewal-in-los-angeles/ https://www.railstotrails.org/trailblog/2017/october/02/bike... Edit: The webpage for the LA River project: http://lariver.org/ http://lariver.org/ The webpage for the LA River Trail: https://www.traillink.com/trail/los-angeles-river-trail/ https://www.traillink.com/trail/los-angeles-river-trail/
- bluGill 8y ago
  I don't know LA enough to comment on that project, but my experience with similar projects is the bike trails created like that are a beautiful ride to nowhere. A great trip to take on a nice Saturday, but nobody will use them to get anywhere. (other than the bars that happen to be near the trail)
  - ams6110 8y ago
    That's my experience as well. My town converted an abandoned rail line to a biking/walking trail. It does run through downtown, but beyond that it basically goes noplace very desirable. It gets recreational use by a small subset of the community, but it's not a big difference-maker in making cycling practical.
Spivak 8y ago
> Advocates are implying (and sometimes outright saying) that a few dozen deaths a year are an acceptable price to pay for a shorter commute. Why are you implying that this is faulty reasoning? I mean traffic deaths would be virtually eliminated if the speed limit across the board was 15 mph. But I know I would rather drive 65 because the risk is worth it -- and over a large population that increase in risk turns into real tangible deaths. Same with any risky behavior that we all engage in every day. Let's do the back of the napkin calculations, take Columbus Ohio as the example of an everycity. Columbus had in 2014 750,000 commuters and say your average person makes $25/hr ($55k annually). Say you were able to shave on average 1 minute off their commute. ($25/hr) * (1hr/60m) * (1m) * (2 trips/work day) * (261 work days/yr) * (750,000 people/trip) = $163,125,000/yr How does a few dozen lives compare to $163 million dollars of value? Is slowing down traffic worth it?
- unethical_ban 8y ago
  Theoretical/in-a-vacuum numbers like this always make me suspicious; it isn't as if workers would have $163m less at the end of a year any more than companies would have $163m less in accounts. That isn't how life works. EVEN if it did - what if, as traffic were slowed and bike lanes and walking lanes were put in, commuter life improved? Society appreciated the new living space and they got healthier and spent less on fuel and cars? That new economies were enabled by new, healthier, cheaper forms of transport?
  - village-idiot 8y ago
    Also, self consciously trading other people’s lives for a few minutes a day is gross.
    - Spivak 8y ago
      Assuming we're still going with 1 minute a day saved which was an intentionally low estimate we're still talking about 12 years worth of time saved over the course of a year. Those minutes add up.
- village-idiot 8y ago
gascan 8y ago
Not to mention the drivers who are offended by the simple act of spending a dollar on someone who is not them.
- village-idiot 8y ago
  Cars kinda make people act like sociopaths.

cgoecknerwald 8y ago

I have some hope for the movement that installs a bike path along a restored LA River! [1] [1] https://www.railstotrails.org/trailblog/2017/october/02/bike-path-and-river-restoration-spark-urban-renewal-in-los-angeles/ https://www.railstotrails.org/trailblog/2017/october/02/bike... Edit: The webpage for the LA River project: http://lariver.org/ http://lariver.org/ The webpage for the LA River Trail: https://www.traillink.com/trail/los-angeles-river-trail/ https://www.traillink.com/trail/los-angeles-river-trail/

bluGill 8y ago
I don't know LA enough to comment on that project, but my experience with similar projects is the bike trails created like that are a beautiful ride to nowhere. A great trip to take on a nice Saturday, but nobody will use them to get anywhere. (other than the bars that happen to be near the trail)
- ams6110 8y ago
  That's my experience as well. My town converted an abandoned rail line to a biking/walking trail. It does run through downtown, but beyond that it basically goes noplace very desirable. It gets recreational use by a small subset of the community, but it's not a big difference-maker in making cycling practical.

Spivak 8y ago

> Advocates are implying (and sometimes outright saying) that a few dozen deaths a year are an acceptable price to pay for a shorter commute. Why are you implying that this is faulty reasoning? I mean traffic deaths would be virtually eliminated if the speed limit across the board was 15 mph. But I know I would rather drive 65 because the risk is worth it -- and over a large population that increase in risk turns into real tangible deaths. Same with any risky behavior that we all engage in every day. Let's do the back of the napkin calculations, take Columbus Ohio as the example of an everycity. Columbus had in 2014 750,000 commuters and say your average person makes $25/hr ($55k annually). Say you were able to shave on average 1 minute off their commute. ($25/hr) * (1hr/60m) * (1m) * (2 trips/work day) * (261 work days/yr) * (750,000 people/trip) = $163,125,000/yr How does a few dozen lives compare to $163 million dollars of value? Is slowing down traffic worth it?

unethical_ban 8y ago
Theoretical/in-a-vacuum numbers like this always make me suspicious; it isn't as if workers would have $163m less at the end of a year any more than companies would have $163m less in accounts. That isn't how life works. EVEN if it did - what if, as traffic were slowed and bike lanes and walking lanes were put in, commuter life improved? Society appreciated the new living space and they got healthier and spent less on fuel and cars? That new economies were enabled by new, healthier, cheaper forms of transport?
- village-idiot 8y ago
  Also, self consciously trading other people’s lives for a few minutes a day is gross.
  - Spivak 8y ago
    Assuming we're still going with 1 minute a day saved which was an intentionally low estimate we're still talking about 12 years worth of time saved over the course of a year. Those minutes add up.
village-idiot 8y ago

gascan 8y ago

Not to mention the drivers who are offended by the simple act of spending a dollar on someone who is not them.

village-idiot 8y ago
Cars kinda make people act like sociopaths.