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> the main driving social-differentiator signals emphasize appearance and attitude Indeed, pushed hard by the advertising industry etc. with the idea that we a
by growlist 8y ago
> the main driving social-differentiator signals emphasize appearance and attitude
Indeed, pushed hard by the advertising industry etc. with the idea that we are defined only by the products we consume.
I see cool as similar to the phenomenon of less well off people spending money on designer labels, i.e. reaction to a position of relative social inferiority. Chavs buy Burberry, whereas Prince Charles patches holes in clothes that he's had for decades.
- swingline-747 8y agoYup. And when fully-inculcated as socially-reinforced virtues, these lies take on a self-fulfilling, self-sustaining quality that makes them seem as unquestionable as gravity. TBH, this is likely why I have no social use for most other Americans because they tend to be tedious and predictable, by virtues of being ill-informed, naïve and brainwashed. As an example, when people talk about how "new" or "updated" something is, they act with unthinking, manufactured biases as if that alone is a primary cause for more inherent value, when they're unwittingly cargo-culting the values of shopping to unrelated areas.
- growlist 8y agoI agree, I loathe this obsession with newness and disdain for anything used as if it's tainted/unclean. Some would say the economy would fall apart without consumerism/the debt that supports it, but idk, surely there has to be a better way to arrange things.
- ryandrake 8y agoEnd it, don’t mend it. State-encouraged mass consumerism was written about almost a century ago.
- petra 8y agoLike you i definetly dislike these consumer values, an egalitarian society would have been nice, but it's just a relatively easy way to get some status, and it's psychological/social benefits. And everybody does that in some way. Most HN users just won the lottery of high IQ, so it's easy to laugh on those burberry buyers. And it's not like you can escape/trancend that status game somehow.
- growlist 8y agoWho's laughing? I think it's sad that some people have to resort to ridiculous peacocking efforts in order to not feel bad about themselves and their position. And regarding your attempt to turn this back on me: I drive a small car, own a humble home, spend well within my means and as a courtesy to others, deliberately avoid dress and behaviour that would draw others' attention to me. I'm quite happy being an invisible old fart.
- petra 8y agoMy response, which could have been written better, was not to attack you, but to raise a point: Everybody compares themselves to others. Some people are more lucky than others and do have better status, in real life. So you don't feel the need to get it from other means, like you commented. Which is a good way to behave, i agree. But what about people living with low status ? Comparing yourself to others and feeling bad upon the result is a deep biological reaction. Afaik, it's not something you can turn off, unless we're talking medications(and side effects), or maybe meditating for decades. Not practical. The other thing is of course, build a society for humans, egalitarian, possibly in small tribes, like humans intend to be. Maybe a dream for the next generation. Not practical. So a useful discussion would be: what could people with low status do, to lower their status anxiety ?
- growlist 8y agoAh ok, I think I probably misinterpreted you. I guess we could ask people to take a Buddhist approach and attempt to release themselves from desire. Failing that though, banning advertising and worthless celebrities would probably be a good first step.. Not holding my breath.
- creep 8y agoI don't know why you're being downvoted. Your opinion is reasonable.
- coldtea 8y ago>Prince Charles patches holes in clothes that he's had for decades. Which is also a status-signal ("hey, I've got good tailored clothes which are sentimentally important to me and I am beyond consumerism") from someone with a huge estate...
- growlist 8y agoThis is probably the first time I've been in the position of being a defender of Prince Charles, but I think your comment is at best ill-informed, at worst cynical: 'I happen to mind deeply about the poisoned legacy we are leaving our children and grandchildren and have been attempting to invest in their futures through reminding people of the urgent need to work in harmony with nature, rather than against her.'
- coldtea 8y ago>'I happen to mind deeply about the poisoned legacy we are leaving our children and grandchildren and have been attempting to invest in their futures through reminding people of the urgent need to work in harmony with nature, rather than against her.' Yeah, give away your estate you didn't earn but enjoy because of an antiquated bloodline-based institution to help nature causes then.
- growlist 8y agoI'll drag us back on topic by saying that I think it's pretty cool that Prince Charles is using his power, such as it is, to help spread ideas that might help us stop ruining the world.
- antidesitter 8y agoDamned if you do, damned if you don’t...
- coldtea 8y agoYou're OK if you do it sincerely, like most simple people who just do it. If you do it when a single banquet in your favor involves such waste as 10,000 ordinary people's gatherings combined, then yeah, mending your clothes to save the planet is not really sincere.