6 ms·

I can see real problems with those things. Mini fridges can be noisy (for real, I've often unplugged them for the night at hotels). Food can be messy. Fans can

I can see real problems with those things. Mini fridges can be noisy (for real, I've often unplugged them for the night at hotels). Food can be messy. Fans can be noisy, and one person's white noise can be another person's irritating noise. These often aren't just arbitrary rules. Alcohol is another thing.

minikites 8y ago
Not to mention electrical safety issues (daisy chaining loaded power strips and/or insufficiently rated extension cords) or fire issues (space heaters).
- Latteland 8y ago
  computers can be daisy chained unsafely and often are in my experience. in my current office we have done that. i still remember that when i was in college microwave ovens were prohibited (used too much energy) but tvs were okay. even my ra had a microwave that had a sign on it that said tv. bullshit rules are ignored. and the other problem is bullshit rules lead people to ignore actual useful rules. kind of like making so many laws that everything and everyone has abused a law leads to people not respecting the system.
- geomark 8y ago
  Some years ago at a big tech company a CAD software development group was folded into the department I was managing. I took a walk around. We had hard wall offices with 2 or 3 desks in each. In one office one of the SW devs had set up a small camp under a table with a sleeping bag, cooler, and night light. I don't think she was homeless. In another office one of the devs had a small cactus farm with grow lights on a timer. Nobody in the group could understand why they shouldn't be allowed to keep this stuff.
  - lovich 8y ago
    Why shouldn't they be allowed to keep that stuff? I'm not trying to be flippant. I have noticed that many managers say no to anything they didn't think of first. Its made me usually default to thinking the manager is wrong unless the employee is adversely affecting another employee. If no one in the group could understand why they shouldn't keep those things, then it sounds like they weren't adversely affecting anyone Edit: I should add that when I say management I mean management that is more than one level above the person who's behavior they are trying to change. People do t have as strong connections once it starts being a chain of relationships and you start losing the benefit of the doubt
    - roenxi 8y ago
      Well, the company might do something negligent and damage the employees stuff. Then the company might incur some liability. Or potentially someone could get injured through corporate negligence (eg, if there is a fire and the software engineer sleeping under the desk gets burned; power goes out for 12 hours and someone with a fridge gets food poisoning). Focusing on GP's comment specifically, if the government (local or higher) discovers that a premise is being used for habitation I imagine there are a whole bunch of rules that kick in that the company does not want to be involved with. It is much cheaper, easier and more internally consistent to mandate that all employees have a standardised work space. Then not only do you cut your risk profile, you also might find opportunities for efficiencies elsewhere. Compare personal risk profiles to a company. If I am a bit risk-prone maybe I tolerate a lifestyle where there is a 1 in 200 chance of a near-fatal accident each year each year (so I'm expecting to make it to old age with a near misses or two in life - I've met people who I judge to live to this level of risk). If you try that sort of approach with a company of 150 employees, in a given year you now expect: 1) More likely than not to have a near fatal accident in the workspace 2) To be imprisoned or have your business ended by the government for being a menace to your employees Corporations can't tolerate risk at anywhere near the level individuals do; because they have to scale everything up to their entire workforce.
      - JoeAltmaier 8y ago
        This sounds largely like strawman examples to justify being paternalistic. The fridge in the break room has exactly the same risk as the one in your office; injury to the employee is a far, far greater risk than busting somebody's stapler; standardized workspace is one of those pointless conformity things that deliberately ignore differences in job function, personal preference and on and on.
        roenxi 8y ago
        No, I've been tangentially involved in this sort of decision from the management side in Serious Industry. The break room fridge is "known to the corporation" in some sense and can be assigned an inspection or even maintenance schedule if you have the expertise. Has more eyes on it for trouble in any case. We had problems with people bringing knives in to de-core their apples. Every year there'd a nasty hand injury or two, and we were under pressure from upper management to keep our injury statistics low. Since hand injuries were one of our major problems; knife ban! :D It was as effective as it was unpopular.
- hvidgaard 8y ago
  If there is an issue with electrical safety, don't try to amend it by imposing rules that can and will be broken. Make the system so it isn't a problem. In this case, install circuit breakers that simply shut off if you draw too much power.
brantonb 8y ago
Misophonia is a thing. I wish food wasn’t allowed at our desks. I end up with headphones on for much of the day because we have free crunchy snacks. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misophonia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misophonia
- kkarakk 8y ago
  >It also appears that a misophonic reaction can occur in the absence of an actual sound so you'll inconvenience ALL of your colleagues so your unprovable condition can be avoided. i hate open desk plans coz of things like this. hr inevitably comes down on the side opposite to common sense and things get banned with no solution(like having a quick snack when you feel tired is not allowed and you can't afford the time away to visit the cafeteria)
  - bayindirh 8y ago
    I love how things can be labeled as unprovable in a snap by people who doesn't suffer from such quirks. Personally I can't stand people who are eating stuff or chewing gum while they are on the phone with me. Same with noisy eating in a silent place. I sometimes silently leave the place if I can, or warn the eater as politely as I can, if he/she's my friend. Heck, if I'm extremely tired or weary I can not even stand myself sometimes.
    - kkarakk 8y ago
      if a reaction can occur in the presence or absence of stimulus, how in the heck are you saying you "have" it. it could be a reaction to a caffeine stimulant heavy diet for all anyone knows. this seems to be in the same realm as micro-aggressions for how provable they are to be a real problem
      - bayindirh 8y ago
        Personally I didn't experience it in the "absence" of the stimulus, so I cannot comment on that part. I only wanted to point that absence of some irritation or uncomfortable feeling in presence of the stimulus for one person is not enough for one to label such sinister and delicate matters as "not real" or "non-existent".
distant_hat 8y ago
Food particularly can be an issue if people do not clean up after themselves. I am in India and we have a team that cleans up after work because we can have food at our desks and any food left out attracts cockroaches and mice/rats. If they do not have a team like that things go downhill fast.
- kamaal 8y ago
  >>I am in India and we have a team that cleans up after work because we can have food at our desks and any food left out attracts cockroaches and mice/rats. :) Where do you work in India? If your office infrastructure is so broken that you could have mice infestation, you definitely have far bigger problems than eating at your desk. In fact at this point in time, I'd like to think you have a mice infestation already. At almost any major tech park that I've worked in Bangalore, I can't recall even single instance of even seeing a fly or mosquito in office. Let alone see a rat.
  - Blaiz0r 8y ago
    Well you wouldn't enjoy working in London then!
    - kamaal 8y ago
      That's interesting to hear. I'd love to see how many offices in London have mice infestations to a point employees could notice it. I was of the opinion that the western world took hygiene quite seriously.
      - gaius 8y ago
        In London on average you are never more than 10ft from a rat, or so they say. For everyone 100ft from the nearest rat there is someone 1ft away from 10 rats.
      - baud147258 8y ago
        Paris has also a rather big rat problem, even if they are usually hidding in the sewers/subways, but one can easily see them at dusk going through the trash. Also we had a few rats in our (19 century) flat, according to a person living above us.
duxup 8y ago
I'm highly skeptical of general internet rationalization of rules if only because humans are really good at coming up with reasons.... and somehow everywhere else I work does just fine without those rules. Nothing personal, just general policy on my part. Also because that company gave no reasons other than the cafeteria thing I mentioned (and that was based in absurdity).
wetpaws 8y ago
This kind of problems should be solved by people talking to each other, not corporate fun police.

minikites 8y ago

Not to mention electrical safety issues (daisy chaining loaded power strips and/or insufficiently rated extension cords) or fire issues (space heaters).

Latteland 8y ago
computers can be daisy chained unsafely and often are in my experience. in my current office we have done that. i still remember that when i was in college microwave ovens were prohibited (used too much energy) but tvs were okay. even my ra had a microwave that had a sign on it that said tv. bullshit rules are ignored. and the other problem is bullshit rules lead people to ignore actual useful rules. kind of like making so many laws that everything and everyone has abused a law leads to people not respecting the system.
geomark 8y ago
Some years ago at a big tech company a CAD software development group was folded into the department I was managing. I took a walk around. We had hard wall offices with 2 or 3 desks in each. In one office one of the SW devs had set up a small camp under a table with a sleeping bag, cooler, and night light. I don't think she was homeless. In another office one of the devs had a small cactus farm with grow lights on a timer. Nobody in the group could understand why they shouldn't be allowed to keep this stuff.
- lovich 8y ago
  Why shouldn't they be allowed to keep that stuff? I'm not trying to be flippant. I have noticed that many managers say no to anything they didn't think of first. Its made me usually default to thinking the manager is wrong unless the employee is adversely affecting another employee. If no one in the group could understand why they shouldn't keep those things, then it sounds like they weren't adversely affecting anyone Edit: I should add that when I say management I mean management that is more than one level above the person who's behavior they are trying to change. People do t have as strong connections once it starts being a chain of relationships and you start losing the benefit of the doubt
  - roenxi 8y ago
    Well, the company might do something negligent and damage the employees stuff. Then the company might incur some liability. Or potentially someone could get injured through corporate negligence (eg, if there is a fire and the software engineer sleeping under the desk gets burned; power goes out for 12 hours and someone with a fridge gets food poisoning). Focusing on GP's comment specifically, if the government (local or higher) discovers that a premise is being used for habitation I imagine there are a whole bunch of rules that kick in that the company does not want to be involved with. It is much cheaper, easier and more internally consistent to mandate that all employees have a standardised work space. Then not only do you cut your risk profile, you also might find opportunities for efficiencies elsewhere. Compare personal risk profiles to a company. If I am a bit risk-prone maybe I tolerate a lifestyle where there is a 1 in 200 chance of a near-fatal accident each year each year (so I'm expecting to make it to old age with a near misses or two in life - I've met people who I judge to live to this level of risk). If you try that sort of approach with a company of 150 employees, in a given year you now expect: 1) More likely than not to have a near fatal accident in the workspace 2) To be imprisoned or have your business ended by the government for being a menace to your employees Corporations can't tolerate risk at anywhere near the level individuals do; because they have to scale everything up to their entire workforce.
    - JoeAltmaier 8y ago
      This sounds largely like strawman examples to justify being paternalistic. The fridge in the break room has exactly the same risk as the one in your office; injury to the employee is a far, far greater risk than busting somebody's stapler; standardized workspace is one of those pointless conformity things that deliberately ignore differences in job function, personal preference and on and on.
      - roenxi 8y ago
        No, I've been tangentially involved in this sort of decision from the management side in Serious Industry. The break room fridge is "known to the corporation" in some sense and can be assigned an inspection or even maintenance schedule if you have the expertise. Has more eyes on it for trouble in any case. We had problems with people bringing knives in to de-core their apples. Every year there'd a nasty hand injury or two, and we were under pressure from upper management to keep our injury statistics low. Since hand injuries were one of our major problems; knife ban! :D It was as effective as it was unpopular.
hvidgaard 8y ago
If there is an issue with electrical safety, don't try to amend it by imposing rules that can and will be broken. Make the system so it isn't a problem. In this case, install circuit breakers that simply shut off if you draw too much power.

brantonb 8y ago

Misophonia is a thing. I wish food wasn’t allowed at our desks. I end up with headphones on for much of the day because we have free crunchy snacks. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misophonia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misophonia

kkarakk 8y ago
>It also appears that a misophonic reaction can occur in the absence of an actual sound so you'll inconvenience ALL of your colleagues so your unprovable condition can be avoided. i hate open desk plans coz of things like this. hr inevitably comes down on the side opposite to common sense and things get banned with no solution(like having a quick snack when you feel tired is not allowed and you can't afford the time away to visit the cafeteria)
- bayindirh 8y ago
  I love how things can be labeled as unprovable in a snap by people who doesn't suffer from such quirks. Personally I can't stand people who are eating stuff or chewing gum while they are on the phone with me. Same with noisy eating in a silent place. I sometimes silently leave the place if I can, or warn the eater as politely as I can, if he/she's my friend. Heck, if I'm extremely tired or weary I can not even stand myself sometimes.
  - kkarakk 8y ago
    if a reaction can occur in the presence or absence of stimulus, how in the heck are you saying you "have" it. it could be a reaction to a caffeine stimulant heavy diet for all anyone knows. this seems to be in the same realm as micro-aggressions for how provable they are to be a real problem
    - bayindirh 8y ago
      Personally I didn't experience it in the "absence" of the stimulus, so I cannot comment on that part. I only wanted to point that absence of some irritation or uncomfortable feeling in presence of the stimulus for one person is not enough for one to label such sinister and delicate matters as "not real" or "non-existent".

distant_hat 8y ago

Food particularly can be an issue if people do not clean up after themselves. I am in India and we have a team that cleans up after work because we can have food at our desks and any food left out attracts cockroaches and mice/rats. If they do not have a team like that things go downhill fast.

kamaal 8y ago
>>I am in India and we have a team that cleans up after work because we can have food at our desks and any food left out attracts cockroaches and mice/rats. :) Where do you work in India? If your office infrastructure is so broken that you could have mice infestation, you definitely have far bigger problems than eating at your desk. In fact at this point in time, I'd like to think you have a mice infestation already. At almost any major tech park that I've worked in Bangalore, I can't recall even single instance of even seeing a fly or mosquito in office. Let alone see a rat.
- Blaiz0r 8y ago
  Well you wouldn't enjoy working in London then!
  - kamaal 8y ago
    That's interesting to hear. I'd love to see how many offices in London have mice infestations to a point employees could notice it. I was of the opinion that the western world took hygiene quite seriously.
    - gaius 8y ago
      In London on average you are never more than 10ft from a rat, or so they say. For everyone 100ft from the nearest rat there is someone 1ft away from 10 rats.
    - baud147258 8y ago
      Paris has also a rather big rat problem, even if they are usually hidding in the sewers/subways, but one can easily see them at dusk going through the trash. Also we had a few rats in our (19 century) flat, according to a person living above us.

duxup 8y ago

I'm highly skeptical of general internet rationalization of rules if only because humans are really good at coming up with reasons.... and somehow everywhere else I work does just fine without those rules. Nothing personal, just general policy on my part. Also because that company gave no reasons other than the cafeteria thing I mentioned (and that was based in absurdity).

wetpaws 8y ago

This kind of problems should be solved by people talking to each other, not corporate fun police.