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Whether Google works with the Chinese government or not will have absolutely no impact on human rights. The only question is whether Google and American intere

Whether Google works with the Chinese government or not will have absolutely no impact on human rights. The only question is whether Google and American interests want to be in the room or left outside in the cold. It's always better to be involved and informed.

geezerjay 8y ago
> Whether Google works with the Chinese government or not will have absolutely no impact on human rights. That assertion only makes sense if you assume that helping perpetuate human rights abuses has no impact on human rights abuses.
- ElBarto 8y ago
  No, the point is that if Google does not work with them then they'll do exactly the same without Google.
  - tern 8y ago
    If there is an argument to be made, it's that without Google's help, they would end up with a worse search product. This kind of "resign in protest" gesture is one that made a bit more sense in the early days of globalization when the US was clearly dominant.
  - ionised 8y ago
    That's a lazy argument and one I personally find morally repugnant. It's no different than the justification some use when we talk about the ethical ramifications of selling arms to middle eastern states in conflict. "They are going to buy their arms from someone, it may as well be us!"
    - ElBarto 8y ago
      I am commenting from a national interests/geostrategic angle. It is amoral almost by definition.
      - toss1 8y ago
        National and Geostrategic interests are amoral by definition? Only if you are an amoral actor that cares not a bit about human rights or ability to self-determination. It is very much in the interests of the US and every democracy to uphold human rights and self-determination at every turn and every possible location in the world. Failure to do so enables dictators, authoritarians, and criminals. The fact that we've often failed to do so, or do it well, does not mitigate the benefits when we it is done well, or the damage when we fail. And make no mistake, failure is what you are pushing. The only question is whether you are doing it right now as a shill for the CCP, or only because you are amoral?
toss1 8y ago
>Whether Google works with the Chinese government or not will have absolutely no impact on human rights. NONSENSE. Google would be explicitly applying the best and brightest in the world to help CCP achieve its goals sooner and better. CCP may indeed ultimately achieve those goals themselves, but it would be much later and with less expertise. Delay and degrading anti-human-rights capabilities is a good unto itself, and a good to the US and every democracy. Sometimes it is not better to be informed and involved with what are basically criminal gangs. Are you promoting this because you are amoral or because you are a shill for the CCP?

geezerjay 8y ago

> Whether Google works with the Chinese government or not will have absolutely no impact on human rights. That assertion only makes sense if you assume that helping perpetuate human rights abuses has no impact on human rights abuses.

ElBarto 8y ago
No, the point is that if Google does not work with them then they'll do exactly the same without Google.
- tern 8y ago
  If there is an argument to be made, it's that without Google's help, they would end up with a worse search product. This kind of "resign in protest" gesture is one that made a bit more sense in the early days of globalization when the US was clearly dominant.
- ionised 8y ago
  That's a lazy argument and one I personally find morally repugnant. It's no different than the justification some use when we talk about the ethical ramifications of selling arms to middle eastern states in conflict. "They are going to buy their arms from someone, it may as well be us!"
  - ElBarto 8y ago
    I am commenting from a national interests/geostrategic angle. It is amoral almost by definition.
    - toss1 8y ago
      National and Geostrategic interests are amoral by definition? Only if you are an amoral actor that cares not a bit about human rights or ability to self-determination. It is very much in the interests of the US and every democracy to uphold human rights and self-determination at every turn and every possible location in the world. Failure to do so enables dictators, authoritarians, and criminals. The fact that we've often failed to do so, or do it well, does not mitigate the benefits when we it is done well, or the damage when we fail. And make no mistake, failure is what you are pushing. The only question is whether you are doing it right now as a shill for the CCP, or only because you are amoral?

toss1 8y ago

>Whether Google works with the Chinese government or not will have absolutely no impact on human rights. NONSENSE. Google would be explicitly applying the best and brightest in the world to help CCP achieve its goals sooner and better. CCP may indeed ultimately achieve those goals themselves, but it would be much later and with less expertise. Delay and degrading anti-human-rights capabilities is a good unto itself, and a good to the US and every democracy. Sometimes it is not better to be informed and involved with what are basically criminal gangs. Are you promoting this because you are amoral or because you are a shill for the CCP?