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Mainframe skills shortage is a complete fabrication, it simply doesn’t exist. In June of this year a local company laid off 850 people, a company with a large m

Mainframe skills shortage is a complete fabrication, it simply doesn’t exist. In June of this year a local company laid off 850 people, a company with a large mainframe installation (SS&C formerly DST Systems). Hundreds were mainframe programmers. This is after a decade offshoring. There are thousands of former mainframers here. And this is just in Kansas City, Mo. Anecdotal but representative I believe. Mainframes are costs centers, always will be. And the target of cost cutting. Millenials aren’t dumb!

DoofusOfDeath 8y ago
I'm not sure if your argument supports your conclusion: 1) You mentioned layoffs, but you didn't mention how long it took those people to find new jobs. 2) For those who couldn't find new jobs, how many of them avoided interviews or job offers because they were unwilling to relocate? 3) How transferable are "mainframe" skills to other "mainframe" installations? (As a non-mainframe-programmer, I have no idea how much one's skillset is peculiar to a specific mainframe vendor, mainframe OS version, etc.) 4) I get the impression that long-term mainframe developers actually have two parallel skillsets: (a) technical skills related to mainframe work in general, and (b) skills related to their particular installation's line-of-business and specific applications. For laid-off employees who couldn't find work, is it possible that their (b)-style skillsets were just not marketable to many other employers?
- brightball 8y ago
  FWIW, a couple of years back I had a gentleman who was a 30 year mainframe programmer in a Rails & Postgres class that I taught. He learned both, was humble enough to take an internship for a Rails job at over 50 and then turned it into full employment. Anecdotal, but I found it interesting to watch the portability of experience.
  - hathawsh 8y ago
    IMHO the key is your student has programming skills mixed with humility. When I'm hiring, that's all I'm really looking for, and I think that's true for most coding jobs, mainframe or not.
  - mywittyname 8y ago
    This answer is pretty telling... Thirty years of mainframe experience and at the end of it, all you're qualified for is an internship.
    - brightball 8y ago
      Honestly, I assumed there was going to be more of an age bias working against him than anything else. He picked things up very quickly.
  - ams6110 8y ago
    Honestly, COBOL is not that different from any other imperative programming language. A bit more verbose perhaps, but if you are a good COBOL programmer you could pick up another language without much trouble.
- throwaway713824 8y ago
  The conclusion that there are many former mainframe developers who no longer work as mainframe developers in the US might be anecdotal but fits what I've seen in the Chicago market as well.
e5india 8y ago
Your comment made me curious and I ended up finding a great article on the story behind the layoffs at SS&C. https://www.thepitchkc.com/news/feature-story/article/21019526/dst-systems-and-the-gutting-of-a-hometown-kansas-city-company https://www.thepitchkc.com/news/feature-story/article/210195...
- TomK32 8y ago
  That was worth reading. capitalism's fixation on quarterly reports is ruining successful companies like DST.
  - tabtab 8y ago
    Tech service companies have to rely on reputation for renewals and referrals. Focusing on quarterly profits makes managers take short-cuts that burn bridges. It might work in a commodity business where the outputs are standardized or easy to grade, but short-cutting reputations is shooting your own foot.
  - eikenberry 8y ago
    That's not capitalism, it's our culture around capitalism. There is nothing inherent to capitalism that stresses short term growth vs. long term growth. For example much of the push for short term growth comes from the stock market, but the stock market (or public ownership at all) is in no way required for capitalism to work (and IMO it would probably be better without it).
    - boon 8y ago
      It's the government's requirements for filing 10-Ks and 10-Qs that generate this type of behavior. Plenty of examples out there where capital-raising efforts, and therefore investment decisions are stymied by markets that are driven by quarterly government reporting. Some companies have been able to fight it off and really put long-term profitability into place (Apple seems like a reasonable example of this), but it is the exception, not the rule, and many times does not last long.
    - 8y ago
module0000 8y ago
DST!? I still deal with DST(haven't heard SS&C mentioned) in the medical insurance industry every day. Nothing but bad things to say about them.
- marktangotango 8y ago
  How would characterize their software and services? Cutting edge modern stuff with engaged knowledgeable support?

DoofusOfDeath 8y ago

I'm not sure if your argument supports your conclusion: 1) You mentioned layoffs, but you didn't mention how long it took those people to find new jobs. 2) For those who couldn't find new jobs, how many of them avoided interviews or job offers because they were unwilling to relocate? 3) How transferable are "mainframe" skills to other "mainframe" installations? (As a non-mainframe-programmer, I have no idea how much one's skillset is peculiar to a specific mainframe vendor, mainframe OS version, etc.) 4) I get the impression that long-term mainframe developers actually have two parallel skillsets: (a) technical skills related to mainframe work in general, and (b) skills related to their particular installation's line-of-business and specific applications. For laid-off employees who couldn't find work, is it possible that their (b)-style skillsets were just not marketable to many other employers?

brightball 8y ago
FWIW, a couple of years back I had a gentleman who was a 30 year mainframe programmer in a Rails & Postgres class that I taught. He learned both, was humble enough to take an internship for a Rails job at over 50 and then turned it into full employment. Anecdotal, but I found it interesting to watch the portability of experience.
- hathawsh 8y ago
  IMHO the key is your student has programming skills mixed with humility. When I'm hiring, that's all I'm really looking for, and I think that's true for most coding jobs, mainframe or not.
- mywittyname 8y ago
  This answer is pretty telling... Thirty years of mainframe experience and at the end of it, all you're qualified for is an internship.
  - brightball 8y ago
    Honestly, I assumed there was going to be more of an age bias working against him than anything else. He picked things up very quickly.
- ams6110 8y ago
  Honestly, COBOL is not that different from any other imperative programming language. A bit more verbose perhaps, but if you are a good COBOL programmer you could pick up another language without much trouble.
throwaway713824 8y ago
The conclusion that there are many former mainframe developers who no longer work as mainframe developers in the US might be anecdotal but fits what I've seen in the Chicago market as well.

e5india 8y ago

Your comment made me curious and I ended up finding a great article on the story behind the layoffs at SS&C. https://www.thepitchkc.com/news/feature-story/article/21019526/dst-systems-and-the-gutting-of-a-hometown-kansas-city-company https://www.thepitchkc.com/news/feature-story/article/210195...

TomK32 8y ago
That was worth reading. capitalism's fixation on quarterly reports is ruining successful companies like DST.
- tabtab 8y ago
  Tech service companies have to rely on reputation for renewals and referrals. Focusing on quarterly profits makes managers take short-cuts that burn bridges. It might work in a commodity business where the outputs are standardized or easy to grade, but short-cutting reputations is shooting your own foot.
- eikenberry 8y ago
  That's not capitalism, it's our culture around capitalism. There is nothing inherent to capitalism that stresses short term growth vs. long term growth. For example much of the push for short term growth comes from the stock market, but the stock market (or public ownership at all) is in no way required for capitalism to work (and IMO it would probably be better without it).
  - boon 8y ago
    It's the government's requirements for filing 10-Ks and 10-Qs that generate this type of behavior. Plenty of examples out there where capital-raising efforts, and therefore investment decisions are stymied by markets that are driven by quarterly government reporting. Some companies have been able to fight it off and really put long-term profitability into place (Apple seems like a reasonable example of this), but it is the exception, not the rule, and many times does not last long.
  - 8y ago

module0000 8y ago

DST!? I still deal with DST(haven't heard SS&C mentioned) in the medical insurance industry every day. Nothing but bad things to say about them.

marktangotango 8y ago
How would characterize their software and services? Cutting edge modern stuff with engaged knowledgeable support?