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There is more glory in philanthropy than in paying your employees. The ROI in terms of reputation is higher. Addition: the same is true for funding something l

There is more glory in philanthropy than in paying your employees. The ROI in terms of reputation is higher. Addition: the same is true for funding something like a computer lab at a school. Lots of good PR for funding a new one but nothing for keeping an existing one funded for the next few years. Although I think it's more valuable to make sure existing infrastructure stays funded.

dforrestwilson 8y ago
Wondering - is the actual ROI likely higher due to tax benefits on charitable giving as well? Crazy thought but are we incentivizing this behavior? I haven’t seen any math on this, but if I pay workers more I still pay the same tax rate on profits and profits will be lower. OTOH if I pay them less, profits are higher, my stock goes up. I donate stock to my charitable fund and get a personal tax break.
DoreenMichele 8y ago
You aren't anywhere near cynical enough. Taken far enough, programs to "help the homeless" -- instead of programs to reduce homelessness -- are a de facto plot to keep homelessness alive and well. It's a form of oppression of the masses. https://streetlifesolutions.blogspot.com/2018/07/the-shirky-principle-and-homelessness.html https://streetlifesolutions.blogspot.com/2018/07/the-shirky-...
- iooi 8y ago
  I don't necessarily agree with you, but another interesting take on this is by Slavoj Zizek, who argues that charitable giving perpetuates the problem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpAMbpQ8J7g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpAMbpQ8J7g
  - DoreenMichele 8y ago
    There's a place for charity in the world. But charity doesn't you give you a middle class life. When a man worth many billions can't be arsed to pay his employees a living wage, but wants to kick a few bucks towards "helping the homeless", something smells very rotten.
- dbatten 8y ago
  Given that Bezos envisions, for example, creating a network of preschools in low-income areas, I'd say he's at least thinking about helping people get out of cyclical poverty. Still, I'd also like to see Amazon pay its employees better...
  - DoreenMichele 8y ago
    Or he could just pay his employees adequately so they aren't forced to live in poor neighborhoods and they could afford to pay for private preschool themselves if they decided for themselves this makes sense for their family. But, no, that he won't do. Which means there's actually a hidden agenda here. Actions speak louder than words. You can charitably argue that he needs a good therapist to help him root out subconscious bias, but you aren't going to convince me he's somehow doing a good thing here.
  - gammateam 8y ago
    so the one person that reads the article gets down-voted to oblivion, thanks for taking the fall mate! Your altruism will not go unnoticed I was going to comment about the preschools and how that idea came from ideas solicited by the public because everyone was just assuming it was just arbitrary helicopter money exclusively for PR
    - DoreenMichele 8y ago
      I've read the article. I've also had a college class on Homelessness and Public Policy. I spent nearly 6 years homeless and got myself off the street without going through a program. The programs are often revolving doors that don't really fix the intractable personal problems that are a root cause of homelessness. The other two big issues: inadequate income and lack of affordable housing. Bezos is directly responsible for his employees lack of adequate wages, an issue he won't fix. No, he is going to build preschools in poor neighborhoods so that poor kids can get properly educated and break the cycle of poverty 2 decades from now when they grow up. Conveniently kicks the can down the road and does nothing to solve homelessness in the here and now, plus comes with all kinds of plausible deniability. "Just wait 2 decades! You'll see! It will help them... Eventually!" "The beatings shall continue until morale improves." and all that.
- ajcodez 8y ago
  I see some parallels with aid sent to Africa. Charitable giving can alleviate suffering short term with the side effect of perpetuating suffering long term. > Aid [to Africa] is an unmitigated political, economic and humanitarian disaster. https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB123758895999200083 https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB123758895999200083
  - DoreenMichele 8y ago
    You might enjoy reading Diet for a small planet. It gets remembered as a vegetarian cookbook, but the first half of the book is about international politics and how food aid is part of the problem.

dforrestwilson 8y ago

Wondering - is the actual ROI likely higher due to tax benefits on charitable giving as well? Crazy thought but are we incentivizing this behavior? I haven’t seen any math on this, but if I pay workers more I still pay the same tax rate on profits and profits will be lower. OTOH if I pay them less, profits are higher, my stock goes up. I donate stock to my charitable fund and get a personal tax break.

DoreenMichele 8y ago

You aren't anywhere near cynical enough. Taken far enough, programs to "help the homeless" -- instead of programs to reduce homelessness -- are a de facto plot to keep homelessness alive and well. It's a form of oppression of the masses. https://streetlifesolutions.blogspot.com/2018/07/the-shirky-principle-and-homelessness.html https://streetlifesolutions.blogspot.com/2018/07/the-shirky-...

iooi 8y ago
I don't necessarily agree with you, but another interesting take on this is by Slavoj Zizek, who argues that charitable giving perpetuates the problem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpAMbpQ8J7g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpAMbpQ8J7g
- DoreenMichele 8y ago
  There's a place for charity in the world. But charity doesn't you give you a middle class life. When a man worth many billions can't be arsed to pay his employees a living wage, but wants to kick a few bucks towards "helping the homeless", something smells very rotten.
dbatten 8y ago
Given that Bezos envisions, for example, creating a network of preschools in low-income areas, I'd say he's at least thinking about helping people get out of cyclical poverty. Still, I'd also like to see Amazon pay its employees better...
- DoreenMichele 8y ago
  Or he could just pay his employees adequately so they aren't forced to live in poor neighborhoods and they could afford to pay for private preschool themselves if they decided for themselves this makes sense for their family. But, no, that he won't do. Which means there's actually a hidden agenda here. Actions speak louder than words. You can charitably argue that he needs a good therapist to help him root out subconscious bias, but you aren't going to convince me he's somehow doing a good thing here.
- gammateam 8y ago
  so the one person that reads the article gets down-voted to oblivion, thanks for taking the fall mate! Your altruism will not go unnoticed I was going to comment about the preschools and how that idea came from ideas solicited by the public because everyone was just assuming it was just arbitrary helicopter money exclusively for PR
  - DoreenMichele 8y ago
    I've read the article. I've also had a college class on Homelessness and Public Policy. I spent nearly 6 years homeless and got myself off the street without going through a program. The programs are often revolving doors that don't really fix the intractable personal problems that are a root cause of homelessness. The other two big issues: inadequate income and lack of affordable housing. Bezos is directly responsible for his employees lack of adequate wages, an issue he won't fix. No, he is going to build preschools in poor neighborhoods so that poor kids can get properly educated and break the cycle of poverty 2 decades from now when they grow up. Conveniently kicks the can down the road and does nothing to solve homelessness in the here and now, plus comes with all kinds of plausible deniability. "Just wait 2 decades! You'll see! It will help them... Eventually!" "The beatings shall continue until morale improves." and all that.
ajcodez 8y ago
I see some parallels with aid sent to Africa. Charitable giving can alleviate suffering short term with the side effect of perpetuating suffering long term. > Aid [to Africa] is an unmitigated political, economic and humanitarian disaster. https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB123758895999200083 https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB123758895999200083
- DoreenMichele 8y ago
  You might enjoy reading Diet for a small planet. It gets remembered as a vegetarian cookbook, but the first half of the book is about international politics and how food aid is part of the problem.