4 ms·

My recommendations: - Give lots of young people the opportunity to learn the necessary mainframe skills (ideally by themselves). Lots of today's great programm

My recommendations: - Give lots of young people the opportunity to learn the necessary mainframe skills (ideally by themselves). Lots of today's great programmers learned their programming skills on their own. This is very hard to do for mainframes because of access to them. - Pay really good salaries and advertise it. Money nearly always has a huge attractive force.

justin66 8y ago
- Make sure the jobs that are available are serious roles at real companies and not contract gigs sourced via body-farming consultancies.
- ASalazarMX 8y ago
  This. A long-term job is indispensable for this kind of programming. Since the tooling is very stable and backwards compatible, you can get really good at it. Now if you get laid off after 5 years of doing just that, you better find another mainframe job because your resume won't look as diverse. OTOH, body-farming consultancies are excellent for networking and finding a full time job.
  - MrBuddyCasino 8y ago
    For finding a job at a crappy company, because those are the ones that hire bodyshops.
    - ASalazarMX 8y ago
      YMMV, it worked fine for me.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
detaro 8y ago
IBM runs a student competition to try get people into it: https://masterthemainframe.com/ https://masterthemainframe.com/
- wolfgke 8y ago
  Is there something similar available if you are no student?
  - detaro 8y ago
    Not that I know of, and as a student I found the competition cycle also a bit off-putting, since it discourages just messing around a bit during random down-time that's not aligned to the schedule.
  - dirkt 8y ago
    Yes, it's called [The Learning System](https://www.ibm.com/it-infrastructure/z/education/master-the-mainframe https://www.ibm.com/it-infrastructure/z/education/master-the...). I've done it twice, it's fun. You get the same tasks the students get, which is (on the whole) a nice tour around the system. And nobody keeps you from playing around and writing and compiling a few programs on your own. It's a virtual system which gets reset when they start a new round. And I'd assume they've set up proper resource controls so you can't damage stuff.
    - kkarakk 8y ago
      just an fyi for other readers - the auditing link for non-students is down. it doesn't work regardless of how many times you press submit. just another sign that ibm is behind the times?
nulagrithom 8y ago
> This is very hard to do for mainframes because of access to them. Bingo. I work in an AS/400 shop. I simply can't invest myself personally in the work because I know my access to that environment is predicated on working for this particular company. I can hone my Linux skills and even my Windows Server skills any time. I can bring it home. I can use it myself. I can own it. I can't do that with the AS/400. Just spinning up a "virtual machine" in the office to play around on is a licensing mess, and there's no "cloud" where I can rent one for a reasonable fee (that I've found). I have no sandbox. Since my continued access to that environment isn't guaranteed or even convenient, I don't really want to dive in. And if I don't want to dive in then learning about it at all feels like a waste of time. Which then means I end up learning the absolute minimum before moving back to familiar territory.
- ownagefool 8y ago
  Pretty much this. I basically steer my clients to free software, simply because they can hire people with experience in it because people can learn it easily in their free time.
- m23khan 8y ago
  one of the best posts I have read on hacker news!
- Someone 8y ago
  http://www.timeshare400.com http://www.timeshare400.com. Starts at $15/month.
  - nulagrithom 8y ago
    Thanks for this. Will actually be really useful form me.
watwut 8y ago
Or maybe, hire people and have them spend some time learning. Pay them while they are learning. Pay them enough to stick afterwards and treat them well. Really. If people dont have exact skill you need but have aptitude, hire them and pay them to learn. No matter what missing skill is.

justin66 8y ago

- Make sure the jobs that are available are serious roles at real companies and not contract gigs sourced via body-farming consultancies.

ASalazarMX 8y ago
This. A long-term job is indispensable for this kind of programming. Since the tooling is very stable and backwards compatible, you can get really good at it. Now if you get laid off after 5 years of doing just that, you better find another mainframe job because your resume won't look as diverse. OTOH, body-farming consultancies are excellent for networking and finding a full time job.
- MrBuddyCasino 8y ago
  For finding a job at a crappy company, because those are the ones that hire bodyshops.
  - ASalazarMX 8y ago
    YMMV, it worked fine for me.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

detaro 8y ago

IBM runs a student competition to try get people into it: https://masterthemainframe.com/ https://masterthemainframe.com/

wolfgke 8y ago
Is there something similar available if you are no student?
- detaro 8y ago
  Not that I know of, and as a student I found the competition cycle also a bit off-putting, since it discourages just messing around a bit during random down-time that's not aligned to the schedule.
- dirkt 8y ago
  Yes, it's called [The Learning System](https://www.ibm.com/it-infrastructure/z/education/master-the-mainframe https://www.ibm.com/it-infrastructure/z/education/master-the...). I've done it twice, it's fun. You get the same tasks the students get, which is (on the whole) a nice tour around the system. And nobody keeps you from playing around and writing and compiling a few programs on your own. It's a virtual system which gets reset when they start a new round. And I'd assume they've set up proper resource controls so you can't damage stuff.
  - kkarakk 8y ago
    just an fyi for other readers - the auditing link for non-students is down. it doesn't work regardless of how many times you press submit. just another sign that ibm is behind the times?

nulagrithom 8y ago

> This is very hard to do for mainframes because of access to them. Bingo. I work in an AS/400 shop. I simply can't invest myself personally in the work because I know my access to that environment is predicated on working for this particular company. I can hone my Linux skills and even my Windows Server skills any time. I can bring it home. I can use it myself. I can own it. I can't do that with the AS/400. Just spinning up a "virtual machine" in the office to play around on is a licensing mess, and there's no "cloud" where I can rent one for a reasonable fee (that I've found). I have no sandbox. Since my continued access to that environment isn't guaranteed or even convenient, I don't really want to dive in. And if I don't want to dive in then learning about it at all feels like a waste of time. Which then means I end up learning the absolute minimum before moving back to familiar territory.

ownagefool 8y ago
Pretty much this. I basically steer my clients to free software, simply because they can hire people with experience in it because people can learn it easily in their free time.
m23khan 8y ago
one of the best posts I have read on hacker news!
Someone 8y ago
http://www.timeshare400.com http://www.timeshare400.com. Starts at $15/month.
- nulagrithom 8y ago
  Thanks for this. Will actually be really useful form me.

watwut 8y ago

Or maybe, hire people and have them spend some time learning. Pay them while they are learning. Pay them enough to stick afterwards and treat them well. Really. If people dont have exact skill you need but have aptitude, hire them and pay them to learn. No matter what missing skill is.