7 ms·

What percentage of the population is able to take advantage of the free college? What are the job prospects like for those who don't go to college?

by imgabe 8y ago

estomagordo 8y ago
I can examplify with Sweden, which I know, where 43% of people aged 25-64 has "some" amount of higher education, and 27% has at least 3 years of higher education. But way more than this are "able to", as you put it. In order to be eligble, one needs passing grades in a high percentage of high school subjects, including some mandatory ones. But failing that, one can always study for that credit later in life.
- chimeracoder 8y ago
  > I can examplify with Sweden, which I know, where 43% of people aged 25-64 has "some" amount of higher education, and 27% has at least 3 years of higher education. Just for contrast, that's much lower than the US, where 44% of the population has completed an undergraduate degree equivalent. And as pointed out by others in this thread, Sweden (like other European countries) does not have a great track record when it comes to ensuring equality for people of different racial and ethnic backgrounds. Yes, in theory, these programs might be available to everyone, but when stratification occurs in the education system from a very young age, it makes for much larger differences down the line.
throwawayjava 8y ago
Taking Germany as the example I know about. > What percentage of the population is able to take advantage of the free college? About 30%. Note that this is roughly the same as the percentage of Americans with a college degree. So it's not some crazy cut-throat system and is not a lottery. Basically, people who know they want to go to college, plan ahead, and apply themselves, can mostly do so. People who want the opportunity sometimes don't get it, but that's true everywhere. And there are a ton of stories of people moving from the non-university track into the university track even later in life. So there's a lot of mobility if you apply yourself. > What are the job prospects like for those who don't go to college? See the example OECD dataset here for "upper secondary; non-tertiary": https://data.oecd.org/unemp/unemployment-rates-by-education-level.htm https://data.oecd.org/unemp/unemployment-rates-by-education-... tl;dr: quite good. Better than or comparable to the US.
- imgabe 8y ago
  If roughly the same percentage of people end up with a college degree, then what would be the advantage of the US changing to that system? If it produces the same result, it's not really better. It's just a different way of accomplishing the same thing.
  - Kurtz79 8y ago
    In one case, people that went to college but were not able to take advantage of the degree would still not have a crippling debt to pay.
    - imgabe 8y ago
      The loans are a problem, but we could fix that by making them dischargeable in bankruptcy and having the government stop subsidizing them. Then banks would have to make a realistic assessment of a student's ability to repay, loan rates and college prices would adjust accordingly. But, if I go to college and dick around and fail out, why should taxpayers have to pay my tuition?
      - fifnir 8y ago
        If I plant wheat and some of the plants don't produce fruit, should I stop watering all of them and demand that they each find its own water source ? If I try breeding chickens and some of them stop laying eggs, should I abandon the whole endeavor and start buying my chickens from the local supermarket because some chicken are dicking around? All national efforts are going to have some waste, it's inevitable and I think we can more than comfortably afford it. Our job should not be to scrutinize every detail in order to minimize waste (of course we should be doing that as well) but rather to make sure that every wheat seed and every chicken have all they need in order to fully develop themselves to the best of their abilities.
        imgabe 8y ago
        Are you saying humans are basically farm animals to be tended to by the government? Personally I would prefer to be considered a sentient being in my own right with my own rights and responsibilities. There is a reason we expend so much energy and care in looking after wheat and chickens. It's so we can eat them.

What percentage of the population is able to take advantage of the free college? What are the job prospects like for those who don't go to college?

by imgabe 8y ago

What percentage of the population is able to take advantage of the free college? What are the job prospects like for those who don't go to college?

estomagordo 8y ago

I can examplify with Sweden, which I know, where 43% of people aged 25-64 has "some" amount of higher education, and 27% has at least 3 years of higher education. But way more than this are "able to", as you put it. In order to be eligble, one needs passing grades in a high percentage of high school subjects, including some mandatory ones. But failing that, one can always study for that credit later in life.

chimeracoder 8y ago
> I can examplify with Sweden, which I know, where 43% of people aged 25-64 has "some" amount of higher education, and 27% has at least 3 years of higher education. Just for contrast, that's much lower than the US, where 44% of the population has completed an undergraduate degree equivalent. And as pointed out by others in this thread, Sweden (like other European countries) does not have a great track record when it comes to ensuring equality for people of different racial and ethnic backgrounds. Yes, in theory, these programs might be available to everyone, but when stratification occurs in the education system from a very young age, it makes for much larger differences down the line.

throwawayjava 8y ago

Taking Germany as the example I know about. > What percentage of the population is able to take advantage of the free college? About 30%. Note that this is roughly the same as the percentage of Americans with a college degree. So it's not some crazy cut-throat system and is not a lottery. Basically, people who know they want to go to college, plan ahead, and apply themselves, can mostly do so. People who want the opportunity sometimes don't get it, but that's true everywhere. And there are a ton of stories of people moving from the non-university track into the university track even later in life. So there's a lot of mobility if you apply yourself. > What are the job prospects like for those who don't go to college? See the example OECD dataset here for "upper secondary; non-tertiary": https://data.oecd.org/unemp/unemployment-rates-by-education-level.htm https://data.oecd.org/unemp/unemployment-rates-by-education-... tl;dr: quite good. Better than or comparable to the US.

imgabe 8y ago
If roughly the same percentage of people end up with a college degree, then what would be the advantage of the US changing to that system? If it produces the same result, it's not really better. It's just a different way of accomplishing the same thing.
- Kurtz79 8y ago
  In one case, people that went to college but were not able to take advantage of the degree would still not have a crippling debt to pay.
  - imgabe 8y ago
    The loans are a problem, but we could fix that by making them dischargeable in bankruptcy and having the government stop subsidizing them. Then banks would have to make a realistic assessment of a student's ability to repay, loan rates and college prices would adjust accordingly. But, if I go to college and dick around and fail out, why should taxpayers have to pay my tuition?
    - fifnir 8y ago
      If I plant wheat and some of the plants don't produce fruit, should I stop watering all of them and demand that they each find its own water source ? If I try breeding chickens and some of them stop laying eggs, should I abandon the whole endeavor and start buying my chickens from the local supermarket because some chicken are dicking around? All national efforts are going to have some waste, it's inevitable and I think we can more than comfortably afford it. Our job should not be to scrutinize every detail in order to minimize waste (of course we should be doing that as well) but rather to make sure that every wheat seed and every chicken have all they need in order to fully develop themselves to the best of their abilities.
      - imgabe 8y ago
        Are you saying humans are basically farm animals to be tended to by the government? Personally I would prefer to be considered a sentient being in my own right with my own rights and responsibilities. There is a reason we expend so much energy and care in looking after wheat and chickens. It's so we can eat them.