4 ms·

Do any of these other countries have the local / state / federal government separation nightmare of the United States, or do they have the same voting standard

Do any of these other countries have the local / state / federal government separation nightmare of the United States, or do they have the same voting standard applied unilaterally for all citizens regardless of location? If not, then they aren't apples to apples comparisons. The American system is 50 different legal bodies, which means 50 governors, 50 senates, N local governments, all doing their best to muck up the system to bend to their own political goals. It's designed to be complicated, which means there can't be an easy answer without re-wiring the entire system.

rsj_hn 8y ago
Many of these countries have a federal system -- the U.S. is not unique in this regard. In fact, switzerland makes our Federalism pale in comparison. Germany is more federalist. The U.S. is not unique in any way in having a federalist system. Seriously, I need to keep saying this, but the U.S. is not special. We have no special insight about running elections that allows us to do it better than others. We do not have a monopoly on poor people. We don't have better healthcare, we don't have better police, we don't have better schools, or courts, we don't have better civic institutions more generally, and we certainly don't have better voting standards. We should learn from the rest of the world and adopt best standards that work well across the OECD. Almost everyone in the OECD requires an ID to vote, and they have a better system, on average. We need to drop this irrational (and frankly, racist) notion that our citizens are unable to obtain IDs because they are too poor or dumb or too disorganized to get them.
- expathacker 8y ago
  I'm not sure you understood my point. I am actually in agreement with you that we should be looking to the rest of the world for a voting model that works, because I feel that ours is a failure. I am not advocating against voter-id laws in fact, I am quite for them, but I recognize that these laws in the United States are frequently designed as weapons to be used against members of other parties. My point is that the rest of the world has exactly 1 legislative body governing elections. America has 51 (perhaps more, I'm not sure to which level of influence local governments can influence electoral processes, but they can certainly influence zoning of polling booths. American resistance to a federal identification card is quite unique, and silly.
  - detaro 8y ago
    > My point is that the rest of the world has exactly 1 legislative body governing elections. How do you come to that (wrong) conclusion, especially after the parent comment spelled out for you that other countries have similar federal systems?
  - rsj_hn 8y ago
    I'm sorry. You are that standardization is a problem. You can have different political organizations oversee the voting process. I'm not saying do away with states. Yet you can have a standardized system. If we built an interstate highway system and have standardization in rail and roads, we can do this for elections as well.
- specialist 8y ago
  "We need to drop this irrational (and frankly, racist) notion that our citizens are unable to obtain IDs because they are too poor or dumb or too disorganized to get them." Here's a nice writeup about Spread The Vote, one of many orgs helping people get their voter IDs. https://www.npr.org/2018/09/07/644648955/for-older-voters-getting-the-right-id-can-be-especially-tough https://www.npr.org/2018/09/07/644648955/for-older-voters-ge...
specialist 8y ago
FWIW, the misc election administrators have been nudging things closer together. One of the benefits of HAVA. In my experience, the EAC has been reality-based.

rsj_hn 8y ago

Many of these countries have a federal system -- the U.S. is not unique in this regard. In fact, switzerland makes our Federalism pale in comparison. Germany is more federalist. The U.S. is not unique in any way in having a federalist system. Seriously, I need to keep saying this, but the U.S. is not special. We have no special insight about running elections that allows us to do it better than others. We do not have a monopoly on poor people. We don't have better healthcare, we don't have better police, we don't have better schools, or courts, we don't have better civic institutions more generally, and we certainly don't have better voting standards. We should learn from the rest of the world and adopt best standards that work well across the OECD. Almost everyone in the OECD requires an ID to vote, and they have a better system, on average. We need to drop this irrational (and frankly, racist) notion that our citizens are unable to obtain IDs because they are too poor or dumb or too disorganized to get them.

expathacker 8y ago
I'm not sure you understood my point. I am actually in agreement with you that we should be looking to the rest of the world for a voting model that works, because I feel that ours is a failure. I am not advocating against voter-id laws in fact, I am quite for them, but I recognize that these laws in the United States are frequently designed as weapons to be used against members of other parties. My point is that the rest of the world has exactly 1 legislative body governing elections. America has 51 (perhaps more, I'm not sure to which level of influence local governments can influence electoral processes, but they can certainly influence zoning of polling booths. American resistance to a federal identification card is quite unique, and silly.
- detaro 8y ago
  > My point is that the rest of the world has exactly 1 legislative body governing elections. How do you come to that (wrong) conclusion, especially after the parent comment spelled out for you that other countries have similar federal systems?
- rsj_hn 8y ago
  I'm sorry. You are that standardization is a problem. You can have different political organizations oversee the voting process. I'm not saying do away with states. Yet you can have a standardized system. If we built an interstate highway system and have standardization in rail and roads, we can do this for elections as well.
specialist 8y ago
"We need to drop this irrational (and frankly, racist) notion that our citizens are unable to obtain IDs because they are too poor or dumb or too disorganized to get them." Here's a nice writeup about Spread The Vote, one of many orgs helping people get their voter IDs. https://www.npr.org/2018/09/07/644648955/for-older-voters-getting-the-right-id-can-be-especially-tough https://www.npr.org/2018/09/07/644648955/for-older-voters-ge...

specialist 8y ago

FWIW, the misc election administrators have been nudging things closer together. One of the benefits of HAVA. In my experience, the EAC has been reality-based.