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> All jurisdictions require some kind of ID to receive a ballot. That's false. See http://canadavsamerica.com/voter-id-laws-canada-vs-america/ http://canadavs
by rsj_hn 8y ago
> All jurisdictions require some kind of ID to receive a ballot.
That's false.
See http://canadavsamerica.com/voter-id-laws-canada-vs-america/ http://canadavsamerica.com/voter-id-laws-canada-vs-america/
18 states do not ask for or require ID, including California, New York, and many other large states.
Where I vote in San Francisco, no ID was required. I was shocked, but they just asked for my address. You can register by filling out a form and they mail you a postcard. You sign the postcard and return it via the mail. All I needed was an address.
When I went to the polls, I told them my name and address and that's it. If I gave them someone else's name and address, I could have voted in their name. Then I could have gone to another precinct and voted in another name. There would be no possible way I would have been caught (as there are no cameras there, either).
Unless they tried to vote as well, no one would know. And even if the victim ended up voting later, I wouldn't have been caught as I didn't give any identifier, and since they didn't give an identifier either, and there were no cameras, there would be no way to resolve the issue as to who voted illegally.
Sorry, but I don't view this as a secure system.
You need ID to open a bank account, go to a hotel, rent an apartment, rent a car, get a credit card, pretty much anything at all, but no ID is needed to vote. And it's frankly patronizing to say that people are too poor to obtain ID.
Canada requires a federal ID or two forms of other IDs to vote.
France seems to be OK requiring IDs, with an exception for living in towns with less than 1000 people where everyone knows everyone else.
Germany requires an ID to register, and the polling official can ask you for ID at the polls.
Iceland and Israel require photo IDs.
Interestingly, the only major nations that don't require IDs are the UK, US, and Australia. In Australia, voting is mandatory, though.
Mexico requires an ID to vote, and they have plenty of poor people who are able to obtain IDs.
The Netherlands requires an ID to vote.
Norway requires an ID to vote.
Switzerland requires an ID (but you can also present your ceremonial sword -- WTF)
Belgium requires an ID to vote.
Italy requires an ID to vote. They have poor people there, too. So does Greece (lots of poor there) and Spain.
I don't see why people in the U.S. are so intransigent on this issue -- why are we not willing to learn from the lessons of other advanced nations that seem to be able to hold elections just fine with requiring IDs.
Another problem is standardization. We need standardized elections, with standardized vote counting equipment, processes, registration requirements, etc.
The U.S. is just a huge backwater in this area -- no real chain of custody, no standardization, and no IDs. It's literally a third world system in the U.S. where they might as well give each voter some ink thumbprint. Just a crazy, dysfunctional system where there is no secure binding from identity to registration, or from registration to ballot, or from the ballots in the ballot box to the ballots cast.
Anyways, as someone who comes from Europe where everyone needs an ID, I'm just baffled by how much people are opposing this here.
- expathacker 8y agoDo any of these other countries have the local / state / federal government separation nightmare of the United States, or do they have the same voting standard applied unilaterally for all citizens regardless of location? If not, then they aren't apples to apples comparisons. The American system is 50 different legal bodies, which means 50 governors, 50 senates, N local governments, all doing their best to muck up the system to bend to their own political goals. It's designed to be complicated, which means there can't be an easy answer without re-wiring the entire system.
- rsj_hn 8y agoMany of these countries have a federal system -- the U.S. is not unique in this regard. In fact, switzerland makes our Federalism pale in comparison. Germany is more federalist. The U.S. is not unique in any way in having a federalist system. Seriously, I need to keep saying this, but the U.S. is not special. We have no special insight about running elections that allows us to do it better than others. We do not have a monopoly on poor people. We don't have better healthcare, we don't have better police, we don't have better schools, or courts, we don't have better civic institutions more generally, and we certainly don't have better voting standards. We should learn from the rest of the world and adopt best standards that work well across the OECD. Almost everyone in the OECD requires an ID to vote, and they have a better system, on average. We need to drop this irrational (and frankly, racist) notion that our citizens are unable to obtain IDs because they are too poor or dumb or too disorganized to get them.
- expathacker 8y agoI'm not sure you understood my point. I am actually in agreement with you that we should be looking to the rest of the world for a voting model that works, because I feel that ours is a failure. I am not advocating against voter-id laws in fact, I am quite for them, but I recognize that these laws in the United States are frequently designed as weapons to be used against members of other parties. My point is that the rest of the world has exactly 1 legislative body governing elections. America has 51 (perhaps more, I'm not sure to which level of influence local governments can influence electoral processes, but they can certainly influence zoning of polling booths. American resistance to a federal identification card is quite unique, and silly.