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The process of English becoming the global language has taken over 150 years. Massive cultural and economic forces have been at play to make English global. It

The process of English becoming the global language has taken over 150 years. Massive cultural and economic forces have been at play to make English global. It's not a simple thing, and what will likely happen is language balkanization for a significant period of time before any seismic shift from English to Chinese which is unlikely to happen for a number of reasons regardless.

partycoder 8y ago
Before World War II, French was more popular than English.
- hyperbovine 8y ago
  Source please.
- cm2187 8y ago
  But none of what it takes for Chinese to posibly overtake one day is in place. Schools aren’t mass teaching chinese, chinese movies, music and authors aren’t captivating people’s mind, and there is already a modern latin (english), so learning chinese isn’t going to fix a problem people have, other than communicating with Chinese nationals who do not speak english.
  - partycoder 8y ago
    More people are learning German in the EU now, and now there is also Brexit, which removes English as an official language there. Simultaneously, the role of the UK as a trade hub will be heavily diminished. I would not be surprised if in 50 years German surpassed English in the EU. China is heavily investing on Africa, so I would not be impressed if Africans start learning Mandarin more actively than they do now. African population is the one experiencing the fastest growth at the moment. In the Americas, I would expect things to remain more or less the same. Historically, the Chinese have been very hermetic when it comes to foreign policy. Chinese yuans (RMB) are not as liquid as dollars, and that seems intentional as they want to keep tight control of their currency value. But they do seem more expansive recently... opening overseas military bases in Djibouti, etc.
    - cm2187 8y ago
      I am not sure where you saw that German is the most popular language being learned in the EU. The following report from the French ministry of education from 2014 (in french unfortunately) [1] states that in Europe, 94% of the students study english as a foreign language (high school and university). Then comes French (23%) and German and Spanish (19% each). As for Brexit, I don’t think english is used as the main working language in the EU because of the UK’s infuence, just because it is the foreign language most people speak. [1] http://www.education.gouv.fr/cid74880/l-apprentissage-des-langues-vivantes-etrangeres-dans-l-union-europeenne-parcours-des-eleves.html http://www.education.gouv.fr/cid74880/l-apprentissage-des-la...
    - nunobrito 8y ago
      Only if you count the recent wave of a million illegal immigrants, otherwise German remains difficult and not so popular to learn. If you disagree, please provide a source. From my own experience (I speak/write in 5 different languages and live in Germany since 2011), it takes between 5 to 10 years to learn German minimally. Other Western European languages are simpler to learn and more popular: Spanish, English, Portuguese, French. Much of the difficulty is not at knowing the German vocabulary and pronunciation. It is simply that the language is very strict in its written and spoken form. By comparison, other western languages had global exposure over the centuries and today are fitting like a shoe to the native speakers of other languages, so the learning curve is far less steep.
      - Oreb 8y ago
        Linguists don't really believe in objectively easy or difficult languages. Subjective difficulty depends on your interests and what languages you already know. As a Norwegian, I found German far easier to learn than English, French and Spanish.
        dash2 8y ago
        Hmm. It seems clear that where you start from plays a role. At the same time, it seems obvious that Latin grammar (3 genders, 6 cases, 4 verb conjugations, 5 noun declensions, multiple moods etc) is more complex than Italian... or am I wrong?
  - ptx 8y ago
    > chinese movies, music and authors aren’t captivating people’s mind Cixin Liu's "Three-Body Problem" sci-fi novel is pretty popular and is being made into a movie[1] this year. And some Chinese musicians, like Faye Wong, have been well-known in the the west for many years. So while American, Japanese and Korean entertainment is much more dominant, I don't think that's an entirely fair statement. [1] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4547948/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4547948/
    - cm2187 8y ago
      I am sure you can name a handful more movies and bands. But compared to the tens of thousands of US and British movies, bands and writers that have influenced western culture (and beyond), this is still nothing more than annecdotic at this stage.
- nunobrito 8y ago
  Portuguese and Spanish are on the top 10 today besides English, French is 18th by number of native speakers. Spanish is on second place with the most native speakers, then comes English in third position and Portuguese on sixth from the European-based idioms: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_number_of_native_speakers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_number_of... China tops that list, no wonder if they also produce a higher volume of literary works on their native language.
- pimmen 8y ago
  In diplomacy, yes. However, the US was the largest national economy even in the 1870s so in trade, no.
pyrale 8y ago
Over 150 years? It is a far fetched claim that the influence of english started in the 1870's. I would say it started 50-60 years ago at most.
- eastendguy 8y ago
  Yes, after WWII. Einstein still published his key papers in German (1905), https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annus_Mirabilis_papers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annus_Mirabilis_papers
- adrianN 8y ago
  It started with the rise of the British Empire. Pax Americana just helped solidify it. Even without an English speaking US, English would be about as popular as Mandarin: there are a billion Indians.
  - _jgdh 8y ago
    > there are a billion Indians That is true... but only 10% of Indians can speak English. It might appear higher because visitors are likely to remain in urban or tourist-y areas, where the percentage of English speakers is much higher.
    - adrianN 8y ago
      China also has many topolects. Only two thirds of Chinese speak Mandarin as first language.
    - pimmen 8y ago
      English still has a lot of influence over India, though. I think this thread is confusing influence with supremacy, English has had a huge influence on other languages and cultures for centuries.
- TulliusCicero 8y ago
  The influence started with the rise of the British Empire. Obviously English wasn't dominant at that point the way it is now, but still internationally influential.

partycoder 8y ago

Before World War II, French was more popular than English.

hyperbovine 8y ago
Source please.
cm2187 8y ago
But none of what it takes for Chinese to posibly overtake one day is in place. Schools aren’t mass teaching chinese, chinese movies, music and authors aren’t captivating people’s mind, and there is already a modern latin (english), so learning chinese isn’t going to fix a problem people have, other than communicating with Chinese nationals who do not speak english.
- partycoder 8y ago
  More people are learning German in the EU now, and now there is also Brexit, which removes English as an official language there. Simultaneously, the role of the UK as a trade hub will be heavily diminished. I would not be surprised if in 50 years German surpassed English in the EU. China is heavily investing on Africa, so I would not be impressed if Africans start learning Mandarin more actively than they do now. African population is the one experiencing the fastest growth at the moment. In the Americas, I would expect things to remain more or less the same. Historically, the Chinese have been very hermetic when it comes to foreign policy. Chinese yuans (RMB) are not as liquid as dollars, and that seems intentional as they want to keep tight control of their currency value. But they do seem more expansive recently... opening overseas military bases in Djibouti, etc.
  - cm2187 8y ago
    I am not sure where you saw that German is the most popular language being learned in the EU. The following report from the French ministry of education from 2014 (in french unfortunately) [1] states that in Europe, 94% of the students study english as a foreign language (high school and university). Then comes French (23%) and German and Spanish (19% each). As for Brexit, I don’t think english is used as the main working language in the EU because of the UK’s infuence, just because it is the foreign language most people speak. [1] http://www.education.gouv.fr/cid74880/l-apprentissage-des-langues-vivantes-etrangeres-dans-l-union-europeenne-parcours-des-eleves.html http://www.education.gouv.fr/cid74880/l-apprentissage-des-la...
  - nunobrito 8y ago
    Only if you count the recent wave of a million illegal immigrants, otherwise German remains difficult and not so popular to learn. If you disagree, please provide a source. From my own experience (I speak/write in 5 different languages and live in Germany since 2011), it takes between 5 to 10 years to learn German minimally. Other Western European languages are simpler to learn and more popular: Spanish, English, Portuguese, French. Much of the difficulty is not at knowing the German vocabulary and pronunciation. It is simply that the language is very strict in its written and spoken form. By comparison, other western languages had global exposure over the centuries and today are fitting like a shoe to the native speakers of other languages, so the learning curve is far less steep.
    - Oreb 8y ago
      Linguists don't really believe in objectively easy or difficult languages. Subjective difficulty depends on your interests and what languages you already know. As a Norwegian, I found German far easier to learn than English, French and Spanish.
      - dash2 8y ago
        Hmm. It seems clear that where you start from plays a role. At the same time, it seems obvious that Latin grammar (3 genders, 6 cases, 4 verb conjugations, 5 noun declensions, multiple moods etc) is more complex than Italian... or am I wrong?
- ptx 8y ago
  > chinese movies, music and authors aren’t captivating people’s mind Cixin Liu's "Three-Body Problem" sci-fi novel is pretty popular and is being made into a movie[1] this year. And some Chinese musicians, like Faye Wong, have been well-known in the the west for many years. So while American, Japanese and Korean entertainment is much more dominant, I don't think that's an entirely fair statement. [1] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4547948/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4547948/
  - cm2187 8y ago
    I am sure you can name a handful more movies and bands. But compared to the tens of thousands of US and British movies, bands and writers that have influenced western culture (and beyond), this is still nothing more than annecdotic at this stage.
nunobrito 8y ago
Portuguese and Spanish are on the top 10 today besides English, French is 18th by number of native speakers. Spanish is on second place with the most native speakers, then comes English in third position and Portuguese on sixth from the European-based idioms: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_number_of_native_speakers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_number_of... China tops that list, no wonder if they also produce a higher volume of literary works on their native language.
pimmen 8y ago
In diplomacy, yes. However, the US was the largest national economy even in the 1870s so in trade, no.

pyrale 8y ago

Over 150 years? It is a far fetched claim that the influence of english started in the 1870's. I would say it started 50-60 years ago at most.

eastendguy 8y ago
Yes, after WWII. Einstein still published his key papers in German (1905), https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annus_Mirabilis_papers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annus_Mirabilis_papers
adrianN 8y ago
It started with the rise of the British Empire. Pax Americana just helped solidify it. Even without an English speaking US, English would be about as popular as Mandarin: there are a billion Indians.
- _jgdh 8y ago
  > there are a billion Indians That is true... but only 10% of Indians can speak English. It might appear higher because visitors are likely to remain in urban or tourist-y areas, where the percentage of English speakers is much higher.
  - adrianN 8y ago
    China also has many topolects. Only two thirds of Chinese speak Mandarin as first language.
  - pimmen 8y ago
    English still has a lot of influence over India, though. I think this thread is confusing influence with supremacy, English has had a huge influence on other languages and cultures for centuries.
TulliusCicero 8y ago
The influence started with the rise of the British Empire. Obviously English wasn't dominant at that point the way it is now, but still internationally influential.