4 ms·

I see. Could you elaborate ?

amorphous 8y ago
Not OP but I have been 2 years in the US. There are many great things in the US, I had a wonderful time, but I'd never swap EU for it. Just two points: vacation time and health insurance. Especially if you are older and/or with kids I'm very thankful to be in the EU.
pjmlp 8y ago
60h is common standard in US, if you are just doing 40h you are being lazy. Most companies offer 1 week vacation. Maternity leave is a foreign word to many companies. Some have a no limit vacation, but the work culture is such that even less people actually take vacations. Then you get to be tied up to the company regarding healthcare. Unions in IT, which exist is a couple of European countries, are seen like persona non grata. There are lots of wonderful things in US, work conditions in tech not necessarily.
- iancmceachern 8y ago
  For all of these reasons I chose to "work for myself" (product design consulting) nearly four years ago and haven't looked back since. I work very hard, but am able to create for myself a career and work/life balance that no other company could ever provide - my own.
- P_I_Staker 8y ago
  How many places have you worked? 60h is not the standard in my experience. I've never worked 60h. People I know that worked what I considered crappy jobs did on occasion. Vacation and maternity leave are bad, but plenty of us companies offer more like 2-4 weeks. Saying that "most companies offer 1 week vacation is just wrong. As always, it depends what you do and where you work.
  - pjmlp 8y ago
    Lots of places scattared around Europe. That is what I get as feedback from American expats over here.
    - pluto9 8y ago
      So where do the expats work that they have such terrible experiences?
      - pjmlp 8y ago
        No idea, I don't recall names of companies, just experiences told at some Meetup or Internations event telling why they decided to move over here.
        ajeet_dhaliwal 8y ago
        I've been fortunate to have the opportunity to work in the US, Canada and the UK as a programmer and I've personally never worked anywhere with 60 hour weeks. Assuming they're not coming in on the weekend, that's 12 hours a day, like 9 am to 9pm everyday. Just haven't seen it. Even if someone does it, they can't be working, it's just not possible, after 5-7 hours I am mentally exhausted. They may be in a seat but they're not being productive. I actually do happen to work 60 hour weeks but only 40 or so for the employer. A few hours break after work and then hitting the code again on personal projects, and on the weekend is possible while remaining motivated.
        P_I_Staker 8y ago
        Yup, we have toxic workplace values in the US. Shitty vacation, that you have "earn" through decades of "service", and don't dare too take too much all at once. People outside of the corporate office workplace have it way worse. That said, this is a massive exaggeration. Seven days is shit, even in the US, for an engineer or programmer. They might ask you to stay late from time to time or come in on the weekend, and I'm not saying it's okay, but most Americans don't do that every week. Sorry, if you've had shitty jobs.
- hoggejin 8y ago
  The amount of anti-American FUD on HN lately is getting absurd. 60h isn't just not common, it's basically non-existent. In my 15 year career across multiple companies in multiple cities and states the average I've witnessed is 35-42 hours a week. If you subtract lunch, coffee breaks, surfing the web it's probably around 25-30 hours of work a week. Vacation time typically starts at 2 weeks for entry-level workers(plus another 2 weeks of sick/personal time plus another 10-15 holidays) and increases to 4-5 weeks (or 'unlimited') for people with more than a few years experience. The average software engineer will pay a trivial percent of their salary in health insurance premiums. If you're stocking shelves or working a cash register or cleaning toilets you're probably better off in the EU than in the US. But if you're a software developer, your quality of life is obviously going to be far higher in the US.
  - digianarchist 8y ago
    Disagree on vacation. Just scan Stackoverflow jobs. Most places cap out at 4 weeks and that's after 10 years. In a lot of the EU you start with 4/5 weeks rising to 6-8. Also for some bizarre reason Canada has chosen to replicate America's awful vacation policies. Only difference is there is a min of 2 weeks. US has no min.
  - highhedgehog 8y ago
    As a european married to an american and possibly looking to move to the States, thank you. You give me hope again.
- softwarefounder 8y ago
  Friend, you just need to get a better job.
  - tobylane 8y ago
    From all I've read online, especially HN, that won't help.

Not OP but I have been 2 years in the US. There are many great things in the US, I had a wonderful time, but I'd never swap EU for it. Just two points: vacation time and health insurance. Especially if you are older and/or with kids I'm very thankful to be in the EU.

pjmlp 8y ago

60h is common standard in US, if you are just doing 40h you are being lazy. Most companies offer 1 week vacation. Maternity leave is a foreign word to many companies. Some have a no limit vacation, but the work culture is such that even less people actually take vacations. Then you get to be tied up to the company regarding healthcare. Unions in IT, which exist is a couple of European countries, are seen like persona non grata. There are lots of wonderful things in US, work conditions in tech not necessarily.

iancmceachern 8y ago
For all of these reasons I chose to "work for myself" (product design consulting) nearly four years ago and haven't looked back since. I work very hard, but am able to create for myself a career and work/life balance that no other company could ever provide - my own.
P_I_Staker 8y ago
How many places have you worked? 60h is not the standard in my experience. I've never worked 60h. People I know that worked what I considered crappy jobs did on occasion. Vacation and maternity leave are bad, but plenty of us companies offer more like 2-4 weeks. Saying that "most companies offer 1 week vacation is just wrong. As always, it depends what you do and where you work.
- pjmlp 8y ago
  Lots of places scattared around Europe. That is what I get as feedback from American expats over here.
  - pluto9 8y ago
    So where do the expats work that they have such terrible experiences?
    - pjmlp 8y ago
      No idea, I don't recall names of companies, just experiences told at some Meetup or Internations event telling why they decided to move over here.
      - ajeet_dhaliwal 8y ago
        I've been fortunate to have the opportunity to work in the US, Canada and the UK as a programmer and I've personally never worked anywhere with 60 hour weeks. Assuming they're not coming in on the weekend, that's 12 hours a day, like 9 am to 9pm everyday. Just haven't seen it. Even if someone does it, they can't be working, it's just not possible, after 5-7 hours I am mentally exhausted. They may be in a seat but they're not being productive. I actually do happen to work 60 hour weeks but only 40 or so for the employer. A few hours break after work and then hitting the code again on personal projects, and on the weekend is possible while remaining motivated.
        P_I_Staker 8y ago
        Yup, we have toxic workplace values in the US. Shitty vacation, that you have "earn" through decades of "service", and don't dare too take too much all at once. People outside of the corporate office workplace have it way worse. That said, this is a massive exaggeration. Seven days is shit, even in the US, for an engineer or programmer. They might ask you to stay late from time to time or come in on the weekend, and I'm not saying it's okay, but most Americans don't do that every week. Sorry, if you've had shitty jobs.
hoggejin 8y ago
The amount of anti-American FUD on HN lately is getting absurd. 60h isn't just not common, it's basically non-existent. In my 15 year career across multiple companies in multiple cities and states the average I've witnessed is 35-42 hours a week. If you subtract lunch, coffee breaks, surfing the web it's probably around 25-30 hours of work a week. Vacation time typically starts at 2 weeks for entry-level workers(plus another 2 weeks of sick/personal time plus another 10-15 holidays) and increases to 4-5 weeks (or 'unlimited') for people with more than a few years experience. The average software engineer will pay a trivial percent of their salary in health insurance premiums. If you're stocking shelves or working a cash register or cleaning toilets you're probably better off in the EU than in the US. But if you're a software developer, your quality of life is obviously going to be far higher in the US.
- digianarchist 8y ago
  Disagree on vacation. Just scan Stackoverflow jobs. Most places cap out at 4 weeks and that's after 10 years. In a lot of the EU you start with 4/5 weeks rising to 6-8. Also for some bizarre reason Canada has chosen to replicate America's awful vacation policies. Only difference is there is a min of 2 weeks. US has no min.
- highhedgehog 8y ago
  As a european married to an american and possibly looking to move to the States, thank you. You give me hope again.
softwarefounder 8y ago
Friend, you just need to get a better job.
- tobylane 8y ago
  From all I've read online, especially HN, that won't help.