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it is so funny that the author just jumped off an international flight with his complained jetlag, yet he choose to praise cash when he couldn't buy coke from a

it is so funny that the author just jumped off an international flight with his complained jetlag, yet he choose to praise cash when he couldn't buy coke from a vending machine using his foreign credit card. he further mentions that "Cash transactions are peer-to-peer, requiring no intermediary, and are thus transactions that Visa cannot skim a cut off", I really want to know how to buy a can of coke in Netherlands using Chinese Yuan/USD/Japanese Yen in cash in such a "no intermediary" no "cut off" fashion.

DINKDINK 8y ago
>I really want to know how to buy a can of coke in Netherlands using Chinese Yuan/USD/Japanese Yen in cash in such a "no intermediary" no "cut off" fashion. It's almost like we would need a digital, global, censorship resistant currency
- mmt 8y ago
  One that actually works, with sufficient trust, still has "a middleman" (blockchain solutions implement this as many, distributed middlemen, IIUC, but that detail seems immaterial to an end user) and thereby still requires a "cut of" the transaction. What would be the transaction cost for a couple-euro-equivalent vending machine purchase, using Bitcoin today? What about the cheapest (per transaction) cryptocurrency out there?
  - DINKDINK 8y ago
    Bitcoin Layer 1 (on chain) ~= .09 euro Bitcoin Layer 2 (lightning network) ~= 0.0005 euro Source: https://twitter.com/alexbosworth/status/1029425619350642688 https://twitter.com/alexbosworth/status/1029425619350642688 These costs are independent of the bitcoin amount transfered. >blockchain solutions implement this as many, distributed middlemen, IIUC There are no "middlemen" required to transfer bitcoin via layer 2. "Middlemen" required to transfer bitcoin via layer 1 are miners and a peer (could be the miner) to relay a block to you.
    - srcmap 8y ago
      Here's an interesting medium article on how/if/when someone can hack someone's private key for Bitcoin: https://medium.com/@nopara73/stealing-satoshis-bitcoins-cc4d57919a2b https://medium.com/@nopara73/stealing-satoshis-bitcoins-cc4d... "Satoshi accumulated about 1 million bitcoins, 1/21 of the total coin supply, many of them are sitting on public keys due to this early feature. This one million Bitcoin is poised to be stolen within 5 to 15 years. Or even sooner, depending on, if secret government projects are still a thing." At price of $6K/BC, there seems to be $ 6 Billion incentive to build that quantum computer to hack his pirate key. If/when that happens, it will be interesting to see what will happen for the rest of crypto base eco-systems.
    - mmt 8y ago
      > Bitcoin Layer 1 (on chain) ~= .09 euro That's the same OOM as what one might expect from a traditional payment card processor (although I don't think it's ever a flat fee, but that's less relevant in the context of transactions that would otherwise be in cash, presumably low-value ones). > Source: https://twitter.com/alexbosworth/status/1029425619350642688 https://twitter.com/alexbosworth/status/1029425619350642688 I'm not sure if that's someone who's a well-known follower of Bitcoin costs or just a random person who tweeted. I'm willing to take your word for it, however, without a source. > There are no "middlemen" required to transfer bitcoin via layer 2. If that's the case, why is the transaction cost greater than zero? I'm not the least bit familiar with "layer 2". If it's well-understood enough that it's just as trustworthy as the underlying currency, then it would make sense to use it. But, then, why would anyone ever use "layer 1" in the first place? > "Middlemen" required to transfer bitcoin via layer 1 are miners and a peer (could be the miner) to relay a block to you. Yes, the miners were the middlemen I was considering. Since they have to be paid, blockchains will never have free (gratis) transactions.
    - kkarakk 8y ago
      and how long do these costs take to "verify", will i get the can of coke a week after my flight has departed? last time i used bitcoin(6 months ago), it took 2 weeks to send 200 dollars equivalent
      - 8y ago
- majewsky 8y ago
  If it's a global currency, it would also need to solve the Euro's problem: When every country uses the same currency, how can the individual countries enforce individual fiscal policies? If the answer is "not at all", what substitutes for fiscal policy?
  - acct1771 8y ago
    F R E E M A R K E T C A P I T A L I S M (I think)

DINKDINK 8y ago

>I really want to know how to buy a can of coke in Netherlands using Chinese Yuan/USD/Japanese Yen in cash in such a "no intermediary" no "cut off" fashion. It's almost like we would need a digital, global, censorship resistant currency

mmt 8y ago
One that actually works, with sufficient trust, still has "a middleman" (blockchain solutions implement this as many, distributed middlemen, IIUC, but that detail seems immaterial to an end user) and thereby still requires a "cut of" the transaction. What would be the transaction cost for a couple-euro-equivalent vending machine purchase, using Bitcoin today? What about the cheapest (per transaction) cryptocurrency out there?
- DINKDINK 8y ago
  Bitcoin Layer 1 (on chain) ~= .09 euro Bitcoin Layer 2 (lightning network) ~= 0.0005 euro Source: https://twitter.com/alexbosworth/status/1029425619350642688 https://twitter.com/alexbosworth/status/1029425619350642688 These costs are independent of the bitcoin amount transfered. >blockchain solutions implement this as many, distributed middlemen, IIUC There are no "middlemen" required to transfer bitcoin via layer 2. "Middlemen" required to transfer bitcoin via layer 1 are miners and a peer (could be the miner) to relay a block to you.
  - srcmap 8y ago
    Here's an interesting medium article on how/if/when someone can hack someone's private key for Bitcoin: https://medium.com/@nopara73/stealing-satoshis-bitcoins-cc4d57919a2b https://medium.com/@nopara73/stealing-satoshis-bitcoins-cc4d... "Satoshi accumulated about 1 million bitcoins, 1/21 of the total coin supply, many of them are sitting on public keys due to this early feature. This one million Bitcoin is poised to be stolen within 5 to 15 years. Or even sooner, depending on, if secret government projects are still a thing." At price of $6K/BC, there seems to be $ 6 Billion incentive to build that quantum computer to hack his pirate key. If/when that happens, it will be interesting to see what will happen for the rest of crypto base eco-systems.
  - mmt 8y ago
    > Bitcoin Layer 1 (on chain) ~= .09 euro That's the same OOM as what one might expect from a traditional payment card processor (although I don't think it's ever a flat fee, but that's less relevant in the context of transactions that would otherwise be in cash, presumably low-value ones). > Source: https://twitter.com/alexbosworth/status/1029425619350642688 https://twitter.com/alexbosworth/status/1029425619350642688 I'm not sure if that's someone who's a well-known follower of Bitcoin costs or just a random person who tweeted. I'm willing to take your word for it, however, without a source. > There are no "middlemen" required to transfer bitcoin via layer 2. If that's the case, why is the transaction cost greater than zero? I'm not the least bit familiar with "layer 2". If it's well-understood enough that it's just as trustworthy as the underlying currency, then it would make sense to use it. But, then, why would anyone ever use "layer 1" in the first place? > "Middlemen" required to transfer bitcoin via layer 1 are miners and a peer (could be the miner) to relay a block to you. Yes, the miners were the middlemen I was considering. Since they have to be paid, blockchains will never have free (gratis) transactions.
  - kkarakk 8y ago
    and how long do these costs take to "verify", will i get the can of coke a week after my flight has departed? last time i used bitcoin(6 months ago), it took 2 weeks to send 200 dollars equivalent
    - 8y ago
majewsky 8y ago
If it's a global currency, it would also need to solve the Euro's problem: When every country uses the same currency, how can the individual countries enforce individual fiscal policies? If the answer is "not at all", what substitutes for fiscal policy?
- acct1771 8y ago
  F R E E M A R K E T C A P I T A L I S M (I think)