5 ms·

Are the State governments the problem here though? From what I(not American) can tell the issue seems to be more that local residents have a surprising(to me) a

by ginko 8y ago

Are the State governments the problem here though? From what I(not American) can tell the issue seems to be more that local residents have a surprising(to me) amount of political control over zoning on the municipal level. I guess this is all part of the American approach to the distribution of power and there are certainly good sides to this, but it also means that NIMBYs can have so much control by voting for the mayor that supports their issues.

pwned1 8y ago
Cities are legally an extension of the states, so states could take control over the process, but you're right, as far as I know municipalities (cities, counties, townships) have almost total control over zoning standards (at least here in Michigan).
- maxerickson 8y ago
  Which means there are about 1500 separate zoning standards (they are largely the same, but a wind energy project might have to work with 2 or more townships to get permitting). I wonder about a state law creating a new type of township that is totally subordinate to the county (dissolving all functions of the township). Would it be a good thing? What are the pitfalls, etc.
  - jwin742 8y ago
    Plenty of states have the concept of unincorporated land.
joshe 8y ago
But states can just decide. They usually leave it to the cities, but all they have to do is pass legislation and it will override all the city rules.
- CamTin 8y ago
  It's tough politics for state legislatures to say "fuck you, cities, we're centralizing control in {Austin,Springfield,Albany}". They will essentially only do it if they are fearful of challenges in the next election by big money. In other words, states tend only to take over traditionally local issues when local government passes some ordinance odious to industry (see fracking in PA, Uber/Lyft background checks in Austin, etc.)
prolikewh0a 8y ago
NIMBY's have practically all of the power with zoning laws in Seattle. They have all of the money as well. We have a crazy amount of SFH right now when we have a housing crisis. It's not like housing would become more affordable anyway, Seattle only builds luxury housing for the rich (and they're having a hard time filling these units!).
- darksaints 8y ago
  > It's not like housing would become more affordable anyway, Seattle only builds luxury housing for the rich (and they're having a hard time filling these units!). They only build luxury housing because housing supply is restricted and the rich can outbid the poor for that restricted development. And no, they aren't having a hard time filling units.
  - prolikewh0a 8y ago
    >And no, they aren't having a hard time filling units. Seattle Times says otherwise. https://www.seattletimes.com/business/real-estate/free-amazon-echo-2-months-free-rent-2500-gift-cards-seattle-apartment-glut-gives-renters-freebies/ https://www.seattletimes.com/business/real-estate/free-amazo...
    - darksaints 8y ago
      That's like saying I'm having a hard time becoming a billionaire. Of course I am...but that in no way implies I'm having a tough time paying my bills.
- Nasrudith 8y ago
  Building housing for the rich has a displacing effect. Either they are locals and their old place goes to sale or rent or they no longer displace existing residents. And absent sweetheart deals incoming rich with their increased tax revenues should allow the city to upgrade public transit, build public housing or other solutions. But it is up to the city to solve their problems. Apparently in Boston contrary to concerns luxury high rises didn't act as gentrification locuses but stemmed its tide in other areas instead.

by ginko 8y ago

pwned1 8y ago

Cities are legally an extension of the states, so states could take control over the process, but you're right, as far as I know municipalities (cities, counties, townships) have almost total control over zoning standards (at least here in Michigan).

maxerickson 8y ago
Which means there are about 1500 separate zoning standards (they are largely the same, but a wind energy project might have to work with 2 or more townships to get permitting). I wonder about a state law creating a new type of township that is totally subordinate to the county (dissolving all functions of the township). Would it be a good thing? What are the pitfalls, etc.
- jwin742 8y ago
  Plenty of states have the concept of unincorporated land.

joshe 8y ago

But states can just decide. They usually leave it to the cities, but all they have to do is pass legislation and it will override all the city rules.

CamTin 8y ago
It's tough politics for state legislatures to say "fuck you, cities, we're centralizing control in {Austin,Springfield,Albany}". They will essentially only do it if they are fearful of challenges in the next election by big money. In other words, states tend only to take over traditionally local issues when local government passes some ordinance odious to industry (see fracking in PA, Uber/Lyft background checks in Austin, etc.)

prolikewh0a 8y ago

NIMBY's have practically all of the power with zoning laws in Seattle. They have all of the money as well. We have a crazy amount of SFH right now when we have a housing crisis. It's not like housing would become more affordable anyway, Seattle only builds luxury housing for the rich (and they're having a hard time filling these units!).

darksaints 8y ago
> It's not like housing would become more affordable anyway, Seattle only builds luxury housing for the rich (and they're having a hard time filling these units!). They only build luxury housing because housing supply is restricted and the rich can outbid the poor for that restricted development. And no, they aren't having a hard time filling units.
- prolikewh0a 8y ago
  >And no, they aren't having a hard time filling units. Seattle Times says otherwise. https://www.seattletimes.com/business/real-estate/free-amazon-echo-2-months-free-rent-2500-gift-cards-seattle-apartment-glut-gives-renters-freebies/ https://www.seattletimes.com/business/real-estate/free-amazo...
  - darksaints 8y ago
    That's like saying I'm having a hard time becoming a billionaire. Of course I am...but that in no way implies I'm having a tough time paying my bills.
Nasrudith 8y ago
Building housing for the rich has a displacing effect. Either they are locals and their old place goes to sale or rent or they no longer displace existing residents. And absent sweetheart deals incoming rich with their increased tax revenues should allow the city to upgrade public transit, build public housing or other solutions. But it is up to the city to solve their problems. Apparently in Boston contrary to concerns luxury high rises didn't act as gentrification locuses but stemmed its tide in other areas instead.