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you know, there's a theory of this and I personally find it much more useful at explaining things than most other political/economic theories... https://en.wiki

by 0x262d 8y ago

you know, there's a theory of this and I personally find it much more useful at explaining things than most other political/economic theories... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism

crankylinuxuser 8y ago
And with that system, you trade the owner (capitalist) with a different owner (government). The proletariat are still in pretty much the same position. And there's also the issue of communism the economic system, and communism the social control system. Economically speaking, does have some justifications. But the social control is more than willing to kill and imprison people for disagreeing with the economic system. Capitalism also has similar types of flaws, and its own directly related deaths it causes. The difference is that capitalism the social control system blames individuals for systemic issues, including death and injury.
- trhway 8y ago
  >And with that system, you trade the owner (capitalist) with a different owner (government). you're mistaking the economic law "Marxism" explaining why and how that stuff is happening for the actual political forces who advocate and force such a change. It like Newton's laws and the actual people shooting the guns which are working based on the Newton's laws.
- hannasanarion 8y ago
  Yes, the ownership merely changes hands. The problem is not mere ownership though. Who owns it matters, because different owners have different incentives. The incentive of a private business owner is profit. Especially for a company that is publicly traded, where investors have the power to sue management for malfeasance if they don't get a return and the company has been particularly charitable. If it can be done, you must fuck over the customer to make profit for shareholders, or be replaced by someone who will. The incentive of a nationalized industry is the good of the state and its voters. Management is incentivized to provide a good product at a fair price to everyone, or else they get voted out of their job.
- 0x262d 8y ago
  ownership by "government" is not the same as ownership by the working class (which includes you unless you are very wealthy). part of the point of socialism is much more democratic control of government anyway.

by 0x262d 8y ago

crankylinuxuser 8y ago

And with that system, you trade the owner (capitalist) with a different owner (government). The proletariat are still in pretty much the same position. And there's also the issue of communism the economic system, and communism the social control system. Economically speaking, does have some justifications. But the social control is more than willing to kill and imprison people for disagreeing with the economic system. Capitalism also has similar types of flaws, and its own directly related deaths it causes. The difference is that capitalism the social control system blames individuals for systemic issues, including death and injury.

trhway 8y ago
>And with that system, you trade the owner (capitalist) with a different owner (government). you're mistaking the economic law "Marxism" explaining why and how that stuff is happening for the actual political forces who advocate and force such a change. It like Newton's laws and the actual people shooting the guns which are working based on the Newton's laws.
hannasanarion 8y ago
Yes, the ownership merely changes hands. The problem is not mere ownership though. Who owns it matters, because different owners have different incentives. The incentive of a private business owner is profit. Especially for a company that is publicly traded, where investors have the power to sue management for malfeasance if they don't get a return and the company has been particularly charitable. If it can be done, you must fuck over the customer to make profit for shareholders, or be replaced by someone who will. The incentive of a nationalized industry is the good of the state and its voters. Management is incentivized to provide a good product at a fair price to everyone, or else they get voted out of their job.
0x262d 8y ago
ownership by "government" is not the same as ownership by the working class (which includes you unless you are very wealthy). part of the point of socialism is much more democratic control of government anyway.