4 ms·

I would already be happy if the prices just were transparent. That should be an issue that should appeal to most reasonable people.

HarryHirsch 8y ago
How would price transparency work for emergencies that require hospital treatment? It's routine emergencies like appendicitis, psychiatric crises requiring a few days of inpatient treatment, even broken limbs. Those are the real cost-drivers, and if you've ever had a child or spouse with any of these you know that this isn't like picking a clinic for butt enlargement or LASIK.
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  If you can't know upfront then publish the cost after the treatment. In addition publish the negotiated rates for all insurances. It's not that hard.
Loughla 8y ago
I 100% agree with this. I can get transparent pricing only AFTER treatments/stays, and only AFTER multiple phone calls and in-person visits to billing and administration. We recently did this for my spouse who had to have surgery that ended up not being covered by insurance due to it being classified as 'elective'. It was 100% NOT elective, and I decided to dig. After almost a full year (and being sent to collections for non-payment as I refused to pay until I had an itemized bill) I received a bill that was actually itemized. The surgeon/staff coded the surgery as the wrong procedure. But because there is never, ever a bill that lays out what you're paying for, I was never presented with an opportunity to question charges. Luckily I have a position that allows that much flexibility, but not everyone is that lucky.
- HarryHirsch 8y ago
  But because there is never, ever a bill that lays out what you're paying for, I was never presented with an opportunity to question charges. The opportunity to question charges arises when you get your day in court. But, as you have discovered, the collection agency won't ever try to get a judgement in court because they full well know that the charges on the bill are bogus and the judge will throw the whole thing out if they pull up in front of one. That's how it works.
briandear 8y ago
That should appeal to everyone except those with a vested interest in opacity. I am a libertarian and I think both people like me as well as the far left would absolutely agree that transparency benefits society. Our main disagreement would be “who” pays, but that’s a debate for another time. Just how calorie counts are required on menus in many states, it might seem that price lists might be legislated similarly.
- octorian 8y ago
  > Our main disagreement would be “who” pays, but that’s a debate for another time. Our main disagreements are about "who" pays. Or at least that's what all of our major political fights seem to be about. Its a great distraction, because it sucks up nearly all the air of public conversation. As a result, no one is ever having that conversation about why we need someone else to pay in the first place. The whole system is setup so that the sticker price of everything is unreasonably expensive, such that an intermediary to "negotiate prices" has become mandatory. Almost regardless of who is actually footing the bill in the end.
  - rootusrootus 8y ago
    Even better, using the intermediary to negotiate prices makes them go up dramatically. At this point if I need something decently expensive from the hospital I just tell them I have no insurance. Because if I tell them I have coverage, they will use the negotiated price, which is absurdly high, and then my HSA plan means I end up paying the whole thing anyway. The system is completely broken.

HarryHirsch 8y ago

How would price transparency work for emergencies that require hospital treatment? It's routine emergencies like appendicitis, psychiatric crises requiring a few days of inpatient treatment, even broken limbs. Those are the real cost-drivers, and if you've ever had a child or spouse with any of these you know that this isn't like picking a clinic for butt enlargement or LASIK.

maxxxxx 8y ago
If you can't know upfront then publish the cost after the treatment. In addition publish the negotiated rates for all insurances. It's not that hard.

Loughla 8y ago

I 100% agree with this. I can get transparent pricing only AFTER treatments/stays, and only AFTER multiple phone calls and in-person visits to billing and administration. We recently did this for my spouse who had to have surgery that ended up not being covered by insurance due to it being classified as 'elective'. It was 100% NOT elective, and I decided to dig. After almost a full year (and being sent to collections for non-payment as I refused to pay until I had an itemized bill) I received a bill that was actually itemized. The surgeon/staff coded the surgery as the wrong procedure. But because there is never, ever a bill that lays out what you're paying for, I was never presented with an opportunity to question charges. Luckily I have a position that allows that much flexibility, but not everyone is that lucky.

HarryHirsch 8y ago
But because there is never, ever a bill that lays out what you're paying for, I was never presented with an opportunity to question charges. The opportunity to question charges arises when you get your day in court. But, as you have discovered, the collection agency won't ever try to get a judgement in court because they full well know that the charges on the bill are bogus and the judge will throw the whole thing out if they pull up in front of one. That's how it works.

briandear 8y ago

That should appeal to everyone except those with a vested interest in opacity. I am a libertarian and I think both people like me as well as the far left would absolutely agree that transparency benefits society. Our main disagreement would be “who” pays, but that’s a debate for another time. Just how calorie counts are required on menus in many states, it might seem that price lists might be legislated similarly.

octorian 8y ago
> Our main disagreement would be “who” pays, but that’s a debate for another time. Our main disagreements are about "who" pays. Or at least that's what all of our major political fights seem to be about. Its a great distraction, because it sucks up nearly all the air of public conversation. As a result, no one is ever having that conversation about why we need someone else to pay in the first place. The whole system is setup so that the sticker price of everything is unreasonably expensive, such that an intermediary to "negotiate prices" has become mandatory. Almost regardless of who is actually footing the bill in the end.
- rootusrootus 8y ago
  Even better, using the intermediary to negotiate prices makes them go up dramatically. At this point if I need something decently expensive from the hospital I just tell them I have no insurance. Because if I tell them I have coverage, they will use the negotiated price, which is absurdly high, and then my HSA plan means I end up paying the whole thing anyway. The system is completely broken.