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I can't recommend StrongLifts enough. https://stronglifts.com https://stronglifts.com I'm up to squatting 130kg now and feeling great!

amorphous 8y ago
The problem with this training is the need to go to a gym or to build one at home. Can't do the latter and loathe going the gym. However, I do enjoy group classes. I tried cross-fit but I found that the competitiveness and exercising against a running clock is not for me (also considering that I'm usually the oldest - 48 though I don't look like it) Then I heard about kettlebell training and that seems to be exactly what I need! I have a kettlebell group class nearby and purchased one kettlebell to use at home. So as an alternative to those who may want an alternative that gives a lot of ROI consider kettlebell training.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- deskamess 8y ago
  In your age group and do some HIIT and Cardio Mix. I do not know much about kettlebells, so what is the ROI on it? I know it can be hard to answer that, so just your personal feelings on how it benefited you would help. I am trying to get some weight training added to my mix and that is the reason for my asking. Thanks.
  - amorphous 8y ago
    A kettlebell is just one small piece of equipment that allows you to have a rather complete workout. Once progressing you may need to increase the weight, but still, something that you can easily do at home. There are plenty of exercises available, online and in books. Just my personal impression but I feel I have exercised well after a session. Obviously, proper weight training in a gym will bring better results but I don't think that this is necessary if all you care is staying healthy and in shape. I just mix it with other sports like running.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
morley 8y ago
I've used StrongLifts for 2+ years and second the recommendation. HOWEVER. Because it's just an app with videos, it's really up to you to learn proper form and execute it each time. Additionally, the app doesn't know your limitations, so take your pain seriously. I hurt my knees squatting a couple years ago, and recently hurt my lower back deadlifting. It sucks, and I'm crossing my fingers that there's no permanent damage. If I were to go back in time, I'd force myself to book yearly or twice-yearly sessions with a physical trainer who can check you on your form, particularly when I first got started.
- SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
  Are you still stronglifting after 2 years? How has your progression been for the last year or so of that? As I understand it it's a fairly novice focused program with aggressive weight increases, so I was wondering how you modified it to continue running it after the first 3-6 months of easy gains went away.
  - TheCapn 8y ago
    You're not supposed to run it for 2 years. OP has made adhoc adjustments and is no longer following the program if he has been consistent. Even the SL5x5 site recommends moving on from the program. Their recommendation is Madcow 5x5 but there's other options out there.
    - SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
      I know, that's why I was curious. If you followed the program as written you'd be at like 2000 lbs of deadlift. My own journey has taken me through Starting Strength to Texas method and then to various 5/3/1's (and occasional returns to Texas) through the years.
- jschwartzi 8y ago
  Sounds like you might need to stretch your hamstrings. Hamstring flexibility is key to form in both squats and deadlifts. In particular, the hamstring must lengthen as you bend your knees in the squat, and it must lengthen as you bend over in the deadlift or you round your back, which is probably where the injury came from. Google "third world squat" for a good test of your flexibility. Most people have very tight hamstrings from sitting all day for most of their lives. I'd pay for yearly clinics for compound lifts, especially if I could learn better form and better stretching techniques.
chillingeffect 8y ago
I started about 3 months ago thanks to a comment on HN! I told a trainer at my local gym I wanted to do the 5x5 program and he knew exactly what I wanted, but added a 6th exercise. He's been training my form, teaching me what to do to avoid exercise-induced nausea and so on.
kahlonel 8y ago
Been using it for 3 months only. It is a great routine; quick and effective.
probably_wrong 8y ago
This app looks a bit like what I need, but not quite. I practice martial arts, and would like to improve my overall fitness. Strength is obviously part of that training, but so are flexibility, speed, and reaction times. I have yet to find a training plan that accounts for all these factors. Even worse, some of them tend to negatively correlate with each other: when done wrong, for instance, strength can negatively impact flexibility. I thought this would be an easy problem to solve. But so far I've had no luck. I guess there is more to biology than just solving an optimization problem.
SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
Starting Strength is another excellent program to follow and if you pick up the book it features an exhaustive description of the bio-mechanics involved in each lift (which you can skip if you just want the charts).
- strls 8y ago
  I didn't like SS when I tried it. It users the rep range 3-5 for the working sets as far as I remember. This makes sense as the book is strength-focused. However this is just too heavy for a casual lifter. Lifting 5RM, the form and concentration has to be very tight not to screw up. I've gotten small injuries from lifting much lighter than that. Nowadays I wouldn't even consider lifting 3RM for reps without backup - I know that will not end well.
  - SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
    > I've gotten small injuries from lifting much lighter than that. Probably because you weren't focused. For me 1-5's are great - long enough to really build character, but short enough you can have the laser focus that the lifts require. If I'm doing 10 reps 3-8 I'm half there. The only lift that requires backup (assuming you don't have the appropriate equipment) is the bench press - all others you drop the weight and walk away.
- ropable 8y ago
  Agreed that it's an excellent novice program for strength training. They place a lot of emphasis on lifting with good form and proper technique. I feel that it's only effective for 3-4 months, but it can a build a solid foundation of strength for just about anyone.
  - SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
    Yeah - if you start as a New Year's resolution you're running that puppy out by the time the snow melts, but it is simple and fast enough to be rewarding with long, punishing hours in the gym, and by the time you've run the program out you should see enough gains that you have the urge to move onto an intermediate program.
gadders 8y ago
I'd also recommend www.startingstrength.com as well. It's similar to strong lifts, but they have a lot of articles on correct form.
rerx 8y ago
I enjoy doing the (recently updated) recommended routine from https://www.reddit.com/r/bodyweightfitness https://www.reddit.com/r/bodyweightfitness -- being able to to it at home (with very little equipment) or outside at a nice calisthenics park is a major perk.
dawidw 8y ago
Could you elaborate on your case a little bit more, please? How old are you? How long did it take you to get to 130kg and from which level did you start? Was that progress linear? What about your weight and fat - have they changed? Have you often got injuries? Thanks in advance! I really admire your achievements!
- cheald 8y ago
  I'm not the OP, but I started on Stronglifts and now run 5/3/1. Current 1RM lifts are around squat 155kg, bench 122.5kg, deadlift 220kg. I'm 35, I've been lifting for about 2.5 years. Most of my progress was linearish for the first 1.5 years or so, and has tapered off. 5/3/1 is a periodized program so the gains come more slowly (as they must once you exhaust linear gains), but they're still coming. I started at 310lb and ~45% bodyfat and at my lightest got down to 230lb/~18% bodyfat. I'm currently about 260 and around 24% bodyfat (via DEXA; calipers underestimated my BF% by around 10%!). I'm 6'10", for reference. I've had a few bouts of tendonitis in my wrists, mostly due to incorrect benching technique. I had some really bad knee pain around the 100kg squat mark, so I went to go see a sports medicine doctor who referred me to a sports physical therapist, who taught me how to squat using my hips rather than my quads. I'm now moving quiet a lot more weight with no knee pain, which is a remarkable achievement given that I had chronic knee issues for most of my adult life - bad enough to necessitate surgery. I love what lifting has done for me, and think everyone should do it.
- andy_ppp 8y ago
  I'm 36, I started with literally nothing (like < 50kg squat) and started 5 months ago. During this time I've not gone when I've been super busy and the app tells you to de-load if you don't go for a week or so. I'm also VERY risk averse in terms of deadlifting and also I'm naturally quite strong so I'm probably covering up some bad technique. I think this thread has made me think I'll get a coach to make sure everything is working correctly.
strls 8y ago
I recommend 5/3/1 for everyone, especially with some lifting experience. Very easily sustainable long term because training sessions are short and sweet. Minimal risk of injury because the warm-up sets are built-in and there's no fatigue from long workouts. It can be easily combined with other sports like running or martial arts because there's plenty of time for recovery.
dver 8y ago
I've used this program several times in the last few years after seeing a comment here on HN. I started at 49, 55 now, no serious weight lifting experience prior, just basic exercises. Worked up from the empty bar. My max on squat has been about 260, and deadlift about 310. Various injuries from prior to lifting keep that about as high as I go. I supplement with swimming on non-lift days during the week, yoga and walking on most weekends. Been a boon to overall fitness, have done long distance backpacking and canoeing (90 miles just this summer) with my oldest son's scout troop. Just last week did a one day 50 mile ride with my youngest son. The app makes it a game that helps with the commitment, I get up at 4:30 to carve out the time each day.
gthtjtkt 8y ago
I can't believe people still recommend squats and bench presses to beginners. Great way to cause a life-changing back or shoulder injury. Unilateral leg exercises and dumbbells are a much better starting point. They can work their way up to squats and bench presses if they decide to compete or want to impress people who ask "How much can you squat and bench?"
- cheald 8y ago
  Stronglifts (and other beginner LP programs) start the lifter at trivial weights, and by the time you reach weights that have the potential for injury, you have hundreds or even thousands of reps under your belt. The motion is practiced, the form is good, and you know how to move that weight. Squats can be started entirely unweighted. Bench can be started with dumbbells if you can't trivially handle a barbell. The motions are perfectly safe (and in the case of the squat, a fundamentally necessary functional movement) when performed with appropriate weight. Squatting or benching high percentages of your 1RM without knowing what you're doing is a quick ticket to injury, sure. Nobody sane recommends that.
  - gthtjtkt 8y ago
    > The motions are perfectly safe In theory, sure. In reality, not even close. I guarantee there isn't a single person in this thread who could tell me what someone's squat form should look like based on their femur:torso ratio and hip/ankle flexibility. Should they squat high bar or low bar? Wide or narrow stance? Parallel or below parallel? Flat shoes or heel lifts? If you can't easily answer all of those questions, you have no business squatting anything more than the bar. Squats, bench presses and deadlifts are extremely complex, high-risk lifts that serve no purpose for the average, non-competitive weightlifter. There are plenty of lower-risk alternatives that can achieve the same results.
    - SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
      > Squats, bench presses and deadlifts are extremely complex, high-risk lifts that serve no purpose for the average, non-competitive weightlifter. You've clearly never had to lift a couch or push a car out of a ditch, even just squatted down to pick up something larger than a breadbox. Your body isn't made of glass - it won't explode, and scaring people off these wonderful exercises is doing a disservice to humanity. > Should they squat high bar or low bar? Really whatever is more comfortable. High bar won't get you as much weight due to leverages but some people lack the mobility, or the desire, to low bar. > Wide or narrow stance? Totally based upon the individual anthropometry. If you have long femurs you can squat wider to get ride of some of that potential moment arm but that's going to load your hips to a greater extent. It'll also depending on how your femur hits your hip bone - I have to squat wider just to get my femurs into the right spot to hit parallel. > Parallel or below parallel? If you're competing, aim for just below -you're playing the game and you want 3 white lights with the most weight. If not, then do what your mobility / goals set. Far below is going to cause you to move less wait, but you don't want to be above to keep the knee strain low (note: your knees ain't going to explode, it's just not as nice on em) > Flat shoes or heel lifts? That's an ankle mobility question. If you can do it without, go for it, but many people won't be able to. Stop living in fear of excellent exercises that get you stronger and build character. Progressive overload and months/years of experience will sort most people out before they explode into a pile of gooey chunks putting a bar on their back. edit: put question marks at the end each quote to help delineate between question / response.

amorphous 8y ago

The problem with this training is the need to go to a gym or to build one at home. Can't do the latter and loathe going the gym. However, I do enjoy group classes. I tried cross-fit but I found that the competitiveness and exercising against a running clock is not for me (also considering that I'm usually the oldest - 48 though I don't look like it) Then I heard about kettlebell training and that seems to be exactly what I need! I have a kettlebell group class nearby and purchased one kettlebell to use at home. So as an alternative to those who may want an alternative that gives a lot of ROI consider kettlebell training.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
deskamess 8y ago
In your age group and do some HIIT and Cardio Mix. I do not know much about kettlebells, so what is the ROI on it? I know it can be hard to answer that, so just your personal feelings on how it benefited you would help. I am trying to get some weight training added to my mix and that is the reason for my asking. Thanks.
- amorphous 8y ago
  A kettlebell is just one small piece of equipment that allows you to have a rather complete workout. Once progressing you may need to increase the weight, but still, something that you can easily do at home. There are plenty of exercises available, online and in books. Just my personal impression but I feel I have exercised well after a session. Obviously, proper weight training in a gym will bring better results but I don't think that this is necessary if all you care is staying healthy and in shape. I just mix it with other sports like running.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

morley 8y ago

I've used StrongLifts for 2+ years and second the recommendation. HOWEVER. Because it's just an app with videos, it's really up to you to learn proper form and execute it each time. Additionally, the app doesn't know your limitations, so take your pain seriously. I hurt my knees squatting a couple years ago, and recently hurt my lower back deadlifting. It sucks, and I'm crossing my fingers that there's no permanent damage. If I were to go back in time, I'd force myself to book yearly or twice-yearly sessions with a physical trainer who can check you on your form, particularly when I first got started.

SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
Are you still stronglifting after 2 years? How has your progression been for the last year or so of that? As I understand it it's a fairly novice focused program with aggressive weight increases, so I was wondering how you modified it to continue running it after the first 3-6 months of easy gains went away.
- TheCapn 8y ago
  You're not supposed to run it for 2 years. OP has made adhoc adjustments and is no longer following the program if he has been consistent. Even the SL5x5 site recommends moving on from the program. Their recommendation is Madcow 5x5 but there's other options out there.
  - SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
    I know, that's why I was curious. If you followed the program as written you'd be at like 2000 lbs of deadlift. My own journey has taken me through Starting Strength to Texas method and then to various 5/3/1's (and occasional returns to Texas) through the years.
jschwartzi 8y ago
Sounds like you might need to stretch your hamstrings. Hamstring flexibility is key to form in both squats and deadlifts. In particular, the hamstring must lengthen as you bend your knees in the squat, and it must lengthen as you bend over in the deadlift or you round your back, which is probably where the injury came from. Google "third world squat" for a good test of your flexibility. Most people have very tight hamstrings from sitting all day for most of their lives. I'd pay for yearly clinics for compound lifts, especially if I could learn better form and better stretching techniques.

chillingeffect 8y ago

I started about 3 months ago thanks to a comment on HN! I told a trainer at my local gym I wanted to do the 5x5 program and he knew exactly what I wanted, but added a 6th exercise. He's been training my form, teaching me what to do to avoid exercise-induced nausea and so on.

kahlonel 8y ago

Been using it for 3 months only. It is a great routine; quick and effective.

probably_wrong 8y ago

This app looks a bit like what I need, but not quite. I practice martial arts, and would like to improve my overall fitness. Strength is obviously part of that training, but so are flexibility, speed, and reaction times. I have yet to find a training plan that accounts for all these factors. Even worse, some of them tend to negatively correlate with each other: when done wrong, for instance, strength can negatively impact flexibility. I thought this would be an easy problem to solve. But so far I've had no luck. I guess there is more to biology than just solving an optimization problem.

SketchySeaBeast 8y ago

Starting Strength is another excellent program to follow and if you pick up the book it features an exhaustive description of the bio-mechanics involved in each lift (which you can skip if you just want the charts).

strls 8y ago
I didn't like SS when I tried it. It users the rep range 3-5 for the working sets as far as I remember. This makes sense as the book is strength-focused. However this is just too heavy for a casual lifter. Lifting 5RM, the form and concentration has to be very tight not to screw up. I've gotten small injuries from lifting much lighter than that. Nowadays I wouldn't even consider lifting 3RM for reps without backup - I know that will not end well.
- SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
  > I've gotten small injuries from lifting much lighter than that. Probably because you weren't focused. For me 1-5's are great - long enough to really build character, but short enough you can have the laser focus that the lifts require. If I'm doing 10 reps 3-8 I'm half there. The only lift that requires backup (assuming you don't have the appropriate equipment) is the bench press - all others you drop the weight and walk away.
ropable 8y ago
Agreed that it's an excellent novice program for strength training. They place a lot of emphasis on lifting with good form and proper technique. I feel that it's only effective for 3-4 months, but it can a build a solid foundation of strength for just about anyone.
- SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
  Yeah - if you start as a New Year's resolution you're running that puppy out by the time the snow melts, but it is simple and fast enough to be rewarding with long, punishing hours in the gym, and by the time you've run the program out you should see enough gains that you have the urge to move onto an intermediate program.

gadders 8y ago

I'd also recommend www.startingstrength.com as well. It's similar to strong lifts, but they have a lot of articles on correct form.

rerx 8y ago

I enjoy doing the (recently updated) recommended routine from https://www.reddit.com/r/bodyweightfitness https://www.reddit.com/r/bodyweightfitness -- being able to to it at home (with very little equipment) or outside at a nice calisthenics park is a major perk.

dawidw 8y ago

Could you elaborate on your case a little bit more, please? How old are you? How long did it take you to get to 130kg and from which level did you start? Was that progress linear? What about your weight and fat - have they changed? Have you often got injuries? Thanks in advance! I really admire your achievements!

cheald 8y ago
I'm not the OP, but I started on Stronglifts and now run 5/3/1. Current 1RM lifts are around squat 155kg, bench 122.5kg, deadlift 220kg. I'm 35, I've been lifting for about 2.5 years. Most of my progress was linearish for the first 1.5 years or so, and has tapered off. 5/3/1 is a periodized program so the gains come more slowly (as they must once you exhaust linear gains), but they're still coming. I started at 310lb and ~45% bodyfat and at my lightest got down to 230lb/~18% bodyfat. I'm currently about 260 and around 24% bodyfat (via DEXA; calipers underestimated my BF% by around 10%!). I'm 6'10", for reference. I've had a few bouts of tendonitis in my wrists, mostly due to incorrect benching technique. I had some really bad knee pain around the 100kg squat mark, so I went to go see a sports medicine doctor who referred me to a sports physical therapist, who taught me how to squat using my hips rather than my quads. I'm now moving quiet a lot more weight with no knee pain, which is a remarkable achievement given that I had chronic knee issues for most of my adult life - bad enough to necessitate surgery. I love what lifting has done for me, and think everyone should do it.
andy_ppp 8y ago
I'm 36, I started with literally nothing (like < 50kg squat) and started 5 months ago. During this time I've not gone when I've been super busy and the app tells you to de-load if you don't go for a week or so. I'm also VERY risk averse in terms of deadlifting and also I'm naturally quite strong so I'm probably covering up some bad technique. I think this thread has made me think I'll get a coach to make sure everything is working correctly.

strls 8y ago

I recommend 5/3/1 for everyone, especially with some lifting experience. Very easily sustainable long term because training sessions are short and sweet. Minimal risk of injury because the warm-up sets are built-in and there's no fatigue from long workouts. It can be easily combined with other sports like running or martial arts because there's plenty of time for recovery.

dver 8y ago

I've used this program several times in the last few years after seeing a comment here on HN. I started at 49, 55 now, no serious weight lifting experience prior, just basic exercises. Worked up from the empty bar. My max on squat has been about 260, and deadlift about 310. Various injuries from prior to lifting keep that about as high as I go. I supplement with swimming on non-lift days during the week, yoga and walking on most weekends. Been a boon to overall fitness, have done long distance backpacking and canoeing (90 miles just this summer) with my oldest son's scout troop. Just last week did a one day 50 mile ride with my youngest son. The app makes it a game that helps with the commitment, I get up at 4:30 to carve out the time each day.

gthtjtkt 8y ago

I can't believe people still recommend squats and bench presses to beginners. Great way to cause a life-changing back or shoulder injury. Unilateral leg exercises and dumbbells are a much better starting point. They can work their way up to squats and bench presses if they decide to compete or want to impress people who ask "How much can you squat and bench?"

cheald 8y ago
Stronglifts (and other beginner LP programs) start the lifter at trivial weights, and by the time you reach weights that have the potential for injury, you have hundreds or even thousands of reps under your belt. The motion is practiced, the form is good, and you know how to move that weight. Squats can be started entirely unweighted. Bench can be started with dumbbells if you can't trivially handle a barbell. The motions are perfectly safe (and in the case of the squat, a fundamentally necessary functional movement) when performed with appropriate weight. Squatting or benching high percentages of your 1RM without knowing what you're doing is a quick ticket to injury, sure. Nobody sane recommends that.
- gthtjtkt 8y ago
  > The motions are perfectly safe In theory, sure. In reality, not even close. I guarantee there isn't a single person in this thread who could tell me what someone's squat form should look like based on their femur:torso ratio and hip/ankle flexibility. Should they squat high bar or low bar? Wide or narrow stance? Parallel or below parallel? Flat shoes or heel lifts? If you can't easily answer all of those questions, you have no business squatting anything more than the bar. Squats, bench presses and deadlifts are extremely complex, high-risk lifts that serve no purpose for the average, non-competitive weightlifter. There are plenty of lower-risk alternatives that can achieve the same results.
  - SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
    > Squats, bench presses and deadlifts are extremely complex, high-risk lifts that serve no purpose for the average, non-competitive weightlifter. You've clearly never had to lift a couch or push a car out of a ditch, even just squatted down to pick up something larger than a breadbox. Your body isn't made of glass - it won't explode, and scaring people off these wonderful exercises is doing a disservice to humanity. > Should they squat high bar or low bar? Really whatever is more comfortable. High bar won't get you as much weight due to leverages but some people lack the mobility, or the desire, to low bar. > Wide or narrow stance? Totally based upon the individual anthropometry. If you have long femurs you can squat wider to get ride of some of that potential moment arm but that's going to load your hips to a greater extent. It'll also depending on how your femur hits your hip bone - I have to squat wider just to get my femurs into the right spot to hit parallel. > Parallel or below parallel? If you're competing, aim for just below -you're playing the game and you want 3 white lights with the most weight. If not, then do what your mobility / goals set. Far below is going to cause you to move less wait, but you don't want to be above to keep the knee strain low (note: your knees ain't going to explode, it's just not as nice on em) > Flat shoes or heel lifts? That's an ankle mobility question. If you can do it without, go for it, but many people won't be able to. Stop living in fear of excellent exercises that get you stronger and build character. Progressive overload and months/years of experience will sort most people out before they explode into a pile of gooey chunks putting a bar on their back. edit: put question marks at the end each quote to help delineate between question / response.