10 ms·

This is a great example of why people still hold gold as a safehaven asset of last resort; it was valuable two thousand years ago and it is still valuable today

This is a great example of why people still hold gold as a safehaven asset of last resort; it was valuable two thousand years ago and it is still valuable today. Gold's value has survived being buried, natural disasters, war, peace, ends-of-empires and anything else the world has thrown at it. Even after two thousand years it is simple enough to verify that gold is relatively pure.

lixtra 8y ago
But now imagine if the owners had invested into a well diversified ETF back then!
- moate 8y ago
  I mean sure you could hoard a pile of gold but if the owner had been able to find a bank that continued to exist and provided compound interest...
21 8y ago
This gold in the day would have made you one of the richest persons around. But today that gold is worth only about $50k (300 coins * 5 grams) The millions of dollars quoted are the historical artefact value.
- claydavisss 8y ago
  Right, I was referring to the assayed value, not the historical value. Gold is basically unique in history as a material with very little practical essential use for most people who have held it...yet holds value durably over the centuries.
  - tehwebguy 8y ago
    Finally, an investment vehicle I can bury for 1600 years and know it will still have value when I come back to it!
  - moate 8y ago
    Gems of a wide variety and other precious metals also exist. It's really not super unique.
  - blacksmith_tb 8y ago
    Just think, some molecules of the gold in the traces on the mobo of the device you're using right now may have traded hands in Rome as a coin! Can't say that for an emerald...
- sdfafsafsaf 8y ago
  TLDR Assuming Augustan values (lasted a few hundred years) [2]: Assuming these are Solidus (4.5g = 1/2 Aureus)and not Aureus (8g = 25 denari), there are 12.5 denari per coin or 3750 denari equivalent. Which is the wage of 20 pedes (lowest infantry). Or $5k/year salary. Actually that's not that bad considering it was 2000 years ago, the pedes were cannon (arrow) fodder, and compared to most of the world or the poorest counties in WV ($16k household income [3]). I don't use the Diocletian values in [2] except to establish the Aurus Solidus relationship (since you assumed 5g) because Diocletian is considered a debaser, Augustus' reform lasted hundreds of years, and by Diocletian's time the Empire was in steep decline. I didn't read the article so I don't know if these are Diocletian coins, but it doesn't really matter. What matters is, for most of the Roman Empire period, how much was 1.5 Kg of gold worth compared to today? Not that much then or now. Certainly within an order of magnitude of the lowest paid wage earner. [1] http://hadrianswallcountry.co.uk/sites/default/files/Pay%20Scales(1).pdf http://hadrianswallcountry.co.uk/sites/default/files/Pay%20S... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_currency#Equivalences https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_currency#Equivalences [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lowest-income_counties_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lowest-income_counties...
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
moate 8y ago
Survivor bias. There were plenty of other things people didn't know would be valuable and were wrong about and vice versa. Gold could be completely obsolete by 2100 or the currency of the empire. Holding actual gold in case of a "last resort" is quaint, because who the hell is going to take your gold when insert cause of societal collapse happens? Seems like bartering and trade goods are more likely to be more common. And if you mean invest in gold because you can then use it to purchase fiat currency, how is that any different than literally other investment (real estate, stocks, etc)? People hoard gold because they REALLY want to believe they're smarter than everyone else and can see the doom on the horizon. Or because they're rappers.
- lixtra 8y ago
  Could you give examples of other goods that were durable and valuable over a period of time of say 500 years but are no longer? I can think of salt that lost about 80% of its value since ancient time. The loss is mostly due to the fact that energy got so cheap and salt is abundant. Gold is quite unique in its scarcity and desirability. Curious for your examples.
  - exHFguy1 8y ago
    Diamonds worth a lot then and now. May not be the case in the future with improved ability to manufacture.
    - yesenadam 8y ago
      Nah. The 'diamonds' thing was created by de Beers by advertising. Making everyone think you had to give a wedding ring when you get married - something everyone now believes. Getting control of all diamond mines, and restricting supply so prices are super-high. It's a huge and amazingly effective scam.
      - yesenadam 8y ago
        Whoops, I meant, a diamond ring. From the De Beers website (!) : "1930s Diamond sales in the US were at an all time low They were seen as an extravagance for the wealthy, and sales, already declining for more than two decades, had plummeted during the Great Depression. De Beers needed a strategy to create a multi-faceted demand for diamonds In the unique position of having to create demand for a product that hadn't been widely marketed before. 1938 De Beers hired advertising agency N.W. Ayer to craft a campaign They were chosen for their approach - to conduct extensive research on social attitudes to diamonds. A new form of advertising was born The brilliant concept was to create an emotional link to diamonds, the sentiment being love, like diamonds, is eternal. 1947 Frances Gerety A copywriter on the De Beers account at the advertising agency N.W. Ayer solidified the link between eternal romance and diamonds by suggesting the line 'A diamond is forever'. These four iconic words have been used ever since Making it one of the longest running and successful campaigns in history. By 1951 8/10 brides in the United States received a diamond engagement ring The engagement diamond tradition was established. An emblem of love 'A diamond is forever' became a symbol of enduring love weaving itself into popular culture and inspiring books, films and songs. 1999 Slogan of the century It's no wonder Advertising Age voted the De Beers campaign as the top advertising slogan of the past century." http://www.debeersgroup.com/en/our-story/innovation-hub/a-diamond-is-forever.html http://www.debeersgroup.com/en/our-story/innovation-hub/a-di...

lixtra 8y ago

But now imagine if the owners had invested into a well diversified ETF back then!

moate 8y ago
I mean sure you could hoard a pile of gold but if the owner had been able to find a bank that continued to exist and provided compound interest...

21 8y ago

This gold in the day would have made you one of the richest persons around. But today that gold is worth only about $50k (300 coins * 5 grams) The millions of dollars quoted are the historical artefact value.

claydavisss 8y ago
Right, I was referring to the assayed value, not the historical value. Gold is basically unique in history as a material with very little practical essential use for most people who have held it...yet holds value durably over the centuries.
- tehwebguy 8y ago
  Finally, an investment vehicle I can bury for 1600 years and know it will still have value when I come back to it!
- moate 8y ago
  Gems of a wide variety and other precious metals also exist. It's really not super unique.
- blacksmith_tb 8y ago
  Just think, some molecules of the gold in the traces on the mobo of the device you're using right now may have traded hands in Rome as a coin! Can't say that for an emerald...
sdfafsafsaf 8y ago
TLDR Assuming Augustan values (lasted a few hundred years) [2]: Assuming these are Solidus (4.5g = 1/2 Aureus)and not Aureus (8g = 25 denari), there are 12.5 denari per coin or 3750 denari equivalent. Which is the wage of 20 pedes (lowest infantry). Or $5k/year salary. Actually that's not that bad considering it was 2000 years ago, the pedes were cannon (arrow) fodder, and compared to most of the world or the poorest counties in WV ($16k household income [3]). I don't use the Diocletian values in [2] except to establish the Aurus Solidus relationship (since you assumed 5g) because Diocletian is considered a debaser, Augustus' reform lasted hundreds of years, and by Diocletian's time the Empire was in steep decline. I didn't read the article so I don't know if these are Diocletian coins, but it doesn't really matter. What matters is, for most of the Roman Empire period, how much was 1.5 Kg of gold worth compared to today? Not that much then or now. Certainly within an order of magnitude of the lowest paid wage earner. [1] http://hadrianswallcountry.co.uk/sites/default/files/Pay%20Scales(1).pdf http://hadrianswallcountry.co.uk/sites/default/files/Pay%20S... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_currency#Equivalences https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_currency#Equivalences [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lowest-income_counties_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lowest-income_counties...
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

moate 8y ago

Survivor bias. There were plenty of other things people didn't know would be valuable and were wrong about and vice versa. Gold could be completely obsolete by 2100 or the currency of the empire. Holding actual gold in case of a "last resort" is quaint, because who the hell is going to take your gold when insert cause of societal collapse happens? Seems like bartering and trade goods are more likely to be more common. And if you mean invest in gold because you can then use it to purchase fiat currency, how is that any different than literally other investment (real estate, stocks, etc)? People hoard gold because they REALLY want to believe they're smarter than everyone else and can see the doom on the horizon. Or because they're rappers.

lixtra 8y ago
Could you give examples of other goods that were durable and valuable over a period of time of say 500 years but are no longer? I can think of salt that lost about 80% of its value since ancient time. The loss is mostly due to the fact that energy got so cheap and salt is abundant. Gold is quite unique in its scarcity and desirability. Curious for your examples.
- exHFguy1 8y ago
  Diamonds worth a lot then and now. May not be the case in the future with improved ability to manufacture.
  - yesenadam 8y ago
    Nah. The 'diamonds' thing was created by de Beers by advertising. Making everyone think you had to give a wedding ring when you get married - something everyone now believes. Getting control of all diamond mines, and restricting supply so prices are super-high. It's a huge and amazingly effective scam.
    - yesenadam 8y ago
      Whoops, I meant, a diamond ring. From the De Beers website (!) : "1930s Diamond sales in the US were at an all time low They were seen as an extravagance for the wealthy, and sales, already declining for more than two decades, had plummeted during the Great Depression. De Beers needed a strategy to create a multi-faceted demand for diamonds In the unique position of having to create demand for a product that hadn't been widely marketed before. 1938 De Beers hired advertising agency N.W. Ayer to craft a campaign They were chosen for their approach - to conduct extensive research on social attitudes to diamonds. A new form of advertising was born The brilliant concept was to create an emotional link to diamonds, the sentiment being love, like diamonds, is eternal. 1947 Frances Gerety A copywriter on the De Beers account at the advertising agency N.W. Ayer solidified the link between eternal romance and diamonds by suggesting the line 'A diamond is forever'. These four iconic words have been used ever since Making it one of the longest running and successful campaigns in history. By 1951 8/10 brides in the United States received a diamond engagement ring The engagement diamond tradition was established. An emblem of love 'A diamond is forever' became a symbol of enduring love weaving itself into popular culture and inspiring books, films and songs. 1999 Slogan of the century It's no wonder Advertising Age voted the De Beers campaign as the top advertising slogan of the past century." http://www.debeersgroup.com/en/our-story/innovation-hub/a-diamond-is-forever.html http://www.debeersgroup.com/en/our-story/innovation-hub/a-di...