5 ms·

I have a laptop with windows on it for ONE program: Fusion360, which apparently does not run on Wine at this time. Windows 10 is so much worse than Windows 7.

I have a laptop with windows on it for ONE program: Fusion360, which apparently does not run on Wine at this time. Windows 10 is so much worse than Windows 7. it's become, like a "phone," a personal consumption terminal. I remember when my old job blocked my installation of Tor. "Unwanted software detected." Why wouldn't a company want people browsing with Tor? The surveillance is increasing. Not as bad as China, but I hope I go to the grave with something more positive to say than "not as bad as China."

yyx 8y ago
Fusion360 got minimal CAD working in browser recently, so there's hope.
moviuro 8y ago
> Why wouldn't a company want people browsing with Tor? You're supposed to be working on your work machine and "IT teams know best". Tor is usually a big red flag that your machine is attempting to evade corporate surveillance, which means that you're actively exfiltrating data or that you've been infected by something bad. Sure, you probably don't want Google to know that you're studying the market for a specialized piece of software/solution. But Management doesn't care, so just use the Incognito Window, and be happy...
cptskippy 8y ago
> Windows 10 is so much worse than Windows 7. it's become, like a "phone," a personal consumption terminal. How have the added convenience features added to Windows 10 that do make it more accessible like a phone, equate to a reduction in your ability to work on it? I use Windows 7 as my primary workstation and I am constantly annoyed by the rough edges. I'm looking forward to my company migrating me to Windows 10. Bluetooth support in Windows 7 is horrid. The stack is proprietary to the vendor and device support is unstable at best. Intel provides proprietary drivers to Lenovo but doesn't change the Device IDs so Windows Update tries to install the bog standard Intel Drivers. Their proprietary drivers don't support Bluetooth 1.0 devices and their standard ones don't support A2DP. While the Win 7 Startmenu's layout is ideal, the implementation is crap. Pinned Apps and the quick access flyouts are the last thing to load (upwards of a minute after logging in). The search prioritizes documents over Apps and Control Panel so you're twiddling your thumbs waiting if you search for "Add remove programs". File Explorer can't make up it's mind if it wants you to use Favorites or Libraries more. It enumerates Network Devices in the Navigation Pane just cause. The Libraries in the Navigation Pane doesn't show all of the libraries you have setup, it gleefully shows Videos and Pictures which I'm pretty sure no one has ever used but leaves out Documents and OneDrive. Ever tell your laptop to shutdown or hibernate, waited for desktop to fade away to the throbber screen, then shut the lid? That's always fun because when you open it up later it wakes up from sleep and finishes shutting down or hibernating.
- drbawb 8y ago
  >How have the added convenience features added to Windows 10 that do make it more accessible like a phone, equate to a reduction in your ability to work on it? Because they've implemented those features in a managed runtime that is slow as molasses. I have 64 GiB of RAM, a high-end enthusiast CPU (Skylake-X), an NVMe drive, a high end GPU -- and the start menu lags, and sometimes loses keystrokes altogether. Search was completely broken for me between builds 1607 and 1709 (the start menu would not find recently installed apps, it would not find any files at all, etc.) This completely disregard for performance and consistency infects every part of the operating system they "update." -- The new control panel's VPN applet frequently gets out of sync w/ the actual state of the tunnel, and the connect/disconnect controls stop working. There are many things you can't even do with the new control panel. There are many instances where you have to wait for the control panel to fail it's happy path (e.g: printer auto discovery) before it just gives up and presents you a link to the old printer adding wizard. Then let's talk about their updater: I've already told you I have what I consider to be an enthusiast-class workstation, yet the last major update took over an hour to complete. What is it doing w/ nearly an hour when it has 50,000 IOPS and 300Mbit/s of WAN at its disposal? Any Linux distro I have ever used can basically finish an installation as fast as it can do IO, meanwhile the Windows updater doesn't even in-flight a second download while the previous package is installing, and then it proceeds to waste my time with three to four reboot cycles. Then, after these updates are finally finished, they pull stunts like in the OP. When it did the Fall Creator's Update (1709?) it reset my default browser to Edge. (Nevermind that part of my job is web development, and I'm very particular about the suite of browsers I have installed & how I have them configured.) -- I've had Windows tell me I'm running out of RAM when I have >30% left. (That's _20 gigabytes of RAM._) This is absolutely insane, I have lost so much productivity to this pile of trash. I have never regretted an OS purchase from Microsoft before, but I regret this purchase, and that is coming from someone who owned Windows Me and Vista.
  - cptskippy 8y ago
    It really sounds like you have a problem with your system affecting performance. I have encountered none of the issues you describe. I even have an Intel Celeron 2957U with 6GB of RAM and an integrated GPU doing CAM/GRBL related tasks over RDC that runs like a top. I also get the impression that you're primarily a Linux user who has to use Windows and is just latching on to any reason to complain about it. > Because they've implemented those features in a managed runtime that is slow as molasses. To my knowledge the Windows 10 UI is written using the C++ Runtime, not a managed one. The use of XAML is not an indicator of a managed language, UWP Apps can be written in C++. > There are many things you can't even do with the new control panel. Microsoft is gradually migrating features from the Control Panel over to the Settings App. As such the Control Panel still exists and is readily accessible. > There are many instances where you have to wait for the control panel to fail it's happy path (e.g: printer auto discovery) before it just gives up and presents you a link to the old printer adding wizard. And for most people the happy path works and is significantly easier to deal with. Not everyone is comfortable editing CUPS config files. > the last major update took over an hour to complete. How long does an distro-upgrade take you? Because that's the equivalent procedure. It really sounds like a problem with your system because the Spring Creators update too about 15 minutes on my systems. > meanwhile the Windows updater doesn't even in-flight a second download while the previous package is installing Windows 10 downloads all of the updates prior to attempting to install any of them so... what are you talking about? > I've had Windows tell me I'm running out of RAM when I have >30% left. Again, that sounds like you have something else going on and you're just blaming the thing you despise for all your woes.
bovermyer 8y ago
Windows 10 is much better than Windows 7, in my opinion. While I use Linux for development work, I still prefer W10 for gaming and design work. Your comment about Tor being blocked by your employer has nothing to do with this discussion.
crankylinuxuser 8y ago
And I would highly suggest moving your CAD workflow to FreeCAD instead. Fusion360, being tied to the hip to Autodesk by being SAAS-like puts you in a very uncomfortable position if they choose to flip the "pay me or else" bit. Most "free" tools like this aren't free, because they rely on data-trapping techniques. These programs are roach motels, with no good way to lossless way to take control of your own data. But that's exactly why it is "free" ; because your data is worth more. Thats the cost.
- chillingeffect 8y ago
  Yes, when I got started with FreeCAD, they were in a very rough spot, transitioning between internal engines of some sort. I tried hard with it for about 6 months, finding it extremely buggy to the point of unusable then made a donation and pledged to try it out in the future. I think it's time I gave it another look now.
  - crankylinuxuser 8y ago
    I know that I work a lot with FreeCAD and KiCAD, to develop PCBs and housings in 1 shot. This should explain my workflow. I use things like the interactive BOM https://forum.kicad.info/t/interactive-html-bom-plugin-for-kicad-5-0/11713 https://forum.kicad.info/t/interactive-html-bom-plugin-for-k... along with uConfig, I can make KiCAD parts directly from PDFs. https://github.com/Robotips/uConfig https://github.com/Robotips/uConfig Digikey also has almost all their parts in a KiCAD library. Clone the repo and import it... Its crazy complete, and combined with the BOM tool, even generates DK part number links. You can determine price easily.... Along with that, there's a great many plugins for FreeCAD as add-ons here: https://github.com/FreeCAD/FreeCAD-addons https://github.com/FreeCAD/FreeCAD-addons . I really like the GDT, a LOT. Open source starts out rough, but the more work is accomplished, we get better than the commercials do :) We all build on each other - we're not competing in a death-math style competition.

yyx 8y ago

Fusion360 got minimal CAD working in browser recently, so there's hope.

moviuro 8y ago

> Why wouldn't a company want people browsing with Tor? You're supposed to be working on your work machine and "IT teams know best". Tor is usually a big red flag that your machine is attempting to evade corporate surveillance, which means that you're actively exfiltrating data or that you've been infected by something bad. Sure, you probably don't want Google to know that you're studying the market for a specialized piece of software/solution. But Management doesn't care, so just use the Incognito Window, and be happy...

cptskippy 8y ago

> Windows 10 is so much worse than Windows 7. it's become, like a "phone," a personal consumption terminal. How have the added convenience features added to Windows 10 that do make it more accessible like a phone, equate to a reduction in your ability to work on it? I use Windows 7 as my primary workstation and I am constantly annoyed by the rough edges. I'm looking forward to my company migrating me to Windows 10. Bluetooth support in Windows 7 is horrid. The stack is proprietary to the vendor and device support is unstable at best. Intel provides proprietary drivers to Lenovo but doesn't change the Device IDs so Windows Update tries to install the bog standard Intel Drivers. Their proprietary drivers don't support Bluetooth 1.0 devices and their standard ones don't support A2DP. While the Win 7 Startmenu's layout is ideal, the implementation is crap. Pinned Apps and the quick access flyouts are the last thing to load (upwards of a minute after logging in). The search prioritizes documents over Apps and Control Panel so you're twiddling your thumbs waiting if you search for "Add remove programs". File Explorer can't make up it's mind if it wants you to use Favorites or Libraries more. It enumerates Network Devices in the Navigation Pane just cause. The Libraries in the Navigation Pane doesn't show all of the libraries you have setup, it gleefully shows Videos and Pictures which I'm pretty sure no one has ever used but leaves out Documents and OneDrive. Ever tell your laptop to shutdown or hibernate, waited for desktop to fade away to the throbber screen, then shut the lid? That's always fun because when you open it up later it wakes up from sleep and finishes shutting down or hibernating.

drbawb 8y ago
>How have the added convenience features added to Windows 10 that do make it more accessible like a phone, equate to a reduction in your ability to work on it? Because they've implemented those features in a managed runtime that is slow as molasses. I have 64 GiB of RAM, a high-end enthusiast CPU (Skylake-X), an NVMe drive, a high end GPU -- and the start menu lags, and sometimes loses keystrokes altogether. Search was completely broken for me between builds 1607 and 1709 (the start menu would not find recently installed apps, it would not find any files at all, etc.) This completely disregard for performance and consistency infects every part of the operating system they "update." -- The new control panel's VPN applet frequently gets out of sync w/ the actual state of the tunnel, and the connect/disconnect controls stop working. There are many things you can't even do with the new control panel. There are many instances where you have to wait for the control panel to fail it's happy path (e.g: printer auto discovery) before it just gives up and presents you a link to the old printer adding wizard. Then let's talk about their updater: I've already told you I have what I consider to be an enthusiast-class workstation, yet the last major update took over an hour to complete. What is it doing w/ nearly an hour when it has 50,000 IOPS and 300Mbit/s of WAN at its disposal? Any Linux distro I have ever used can basically finish an installation as fast as it can do IO, meanwhile the Windows updater doesn't even in-flight a second download while the previous package is installing, and then it proceeds to waste my time with three to four reboot cycles. Then, after these updates are finally finished, they pull stunts like in the OP. When it did the Fall Creator's Update (1709?) it reset my default browser to Edge. (Nevermind that part of my job is web development, and I'm very particular about the suite of browsers I have installed & how I have them configured.) -- I've had Windows tell me I'm running out of RAM when I have >30% left. (That's _20 gigabytes of RAM._) This is absolutely insane, I have lost so much productivity to this pile of trash. I have never regretted an OS purchase from Microsoft before, but I regret this purchase, and that is coming from someone who owned Windows Me and Vista.
- cptskippy 8y ago
  It really sounds like you have a problem with your system affecting performance. I have encountered none of the issues you describe. I even have an Intel Celeron 2957U with 6GB of RAM and an integrated GPU doing CAM/GRBL related tasks over RDC that runs like a top. I also get the impression that you're primarily a Linux user who has to use Windows and is just latching on to any reason to complain about it. > Because they've implemented those features in a managed runtime that is slow as molasses. To my knowledge the Windows 10 UI is written using the C++ Runtime, not a managed one. The use of XAML is not an indicator of a managed language, UWP Apps can be written in C++. > There are many things you can't even do with the new control panel. Microsoft is gradually migrating features from the Control Panel over to the Settings App. As such the Control Panel still exists and is readily accessible. > There are many instances where you have to wait for the control panel to fail it's happy path (e.g: printer auto discovery) before it just gives up and presents you a link to the old printer adding wizard. And for most people the happy path works and is significantly easier to deal with. Not everyone is comfortable editing CUPS config files. > the last major update took over an hour to complete. How long does an distro-upgrade take you? Because that's the equivalent procedure. It really sounds like a problem with your system because the Spring Creators update too about 15 minutes on my systems. > meanwhile the Windows updater doesn't even in-flight a second download while the previous package is installing Windows 10 downloads all of the updates prior to attempting to install any of them so... what are you talking about? > I've had Windows tell me I'm running out of RAM when I have >30% left. Again, that sounds like you have something else going on and you're just blaming the thing you despise for all your woes.

bovermyer 8y ago

Windows 10 is much better than Windows 7, in my opinion. While I use Linux for development work, I still prefer W10 for gaming and design work. Your comment about Tor being blocked by your employer has nothing to do with this discussion.

crankylinuxuser 8y ago

And I would highly suggest moving your CAD workflow to FreeCAD instead. Fusion360, being tied to the hip to Autodesk by being SAAS-like puts you in a very uncomfortable position if they choose to flip the "pay me or else" bit. Most "free" tools like this aren't free, because they rely on data-trapping techniques. These programs are roach motels, with no good way to lossless way to take control of your own data. But that's exactly why it is "free" ; because your data is worth more. Thats the cost.

chillingeffect 8y ago
Yes, when I got started with FreeCAD, they were in a very rough spot, transitioning between internal engines of some sort. I tried hard with it for about 6 months, finding it extremely buggy to the point of unusable then made a donation and pledged to try it out in the future. I think it's time I gave it another look now.
- crankylinuxuser 8y ago
  I know that I work a lot with FreeCAD and KiCAD, to develop PCBs and housings in 1 shot. This should explain my workflow. I use things like the interactive BOM https://forum.kicad.info/t/interactive-html-bom-plugin-for-kicad-5-0/11713 https://forum.kicad.info/t/interactive-html-bom-plugin-for-k... along with uConfig, I can make KiCAD parts directly from PDFs. https://github.com/Robotips/uConfig https://github.com/Robotips/uConfig Digikey also has almost all their parts in a KiCAD library. Clone the repo and import it... Its crazy complete, and combined with the BOM tool, even generates DK part number links. You can determine price easily.... Along with that, there's a great many plugins for FreeCAD as add-ons here: https://github.com/FreeCAD/FreeCAD-addons https://github.com/FreeCAD/FreeCAD-addons . I really like the GDT, a LOT. Open source starts out rough, but the more work is accomplished, we get better than the commercials do :) We all build on each other - we're not competing in a death-math style competition.