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Ubuntu doesn't mind at all if I change my browser. It even offers several different browsers in its package manager. Oh, and it doesn't spy on me.

by swebs 8y ago

neilsimp1 8y ago
To be fair, Ubuntu does send usage data to Canonical, unlike some other distros. Whether or not that counts as "spying" to you is another question.
- jaimex2 8y ago
  I thought it asks you to opt-in when you install?
  - testvox 8y ago
    It asks you if you want to opt-out the default is enabled.
  - emptyfile 8y ago
    No, its opt out, default is yes.
    - jaimex2 8y ago
      Ah, lazy people like me dont even read... guess thats what theyre counting on.
- addicted 8y ago
  You can disable that very easily. And as far as I remember when I upgraded to Ubuntu 18.04 on my VM, it asked me whether I was ok with sending anonymous usage data (I believe the default choice was yes which is not ideal but was easy enough to turn off).
  - type0 8y ago
    Even if you answer No, it will ping to their servers so that it can count users that did not want it. At least Canonical are honest about it and I'm sure you could at least prevent it with your firewall settings or maybe even by editing the hosts file.
  - seabrookmx 8y ago
    This was my experience as well. That and the new "minimal install" option both jumped out at my when I set up my latest dev box.
- swebs 8y ago
  They only collect data of the installation process. Once installation is complete, no additional data is collected. They've even publicly released the results. >The collected data is not-personally-identifiable. Meaning that a user cannot be singled out or tracked based on the data he/she provided. Here’s what Ubuntu collects > Version and flavor of Ubuntu you’re installing > Whether you have network connectivity at install time > Hardware statistics such as CPU, RAM, GPU, etc > Device manufacturer > Country > Installation time > Whether you choose auto login, installing third-party codecs, downloading updates during install > Disk layout https://itsfoss.com/ubuntu-data-collection-stats/ https://itsfoss.com/ubuntu-data-collection-stats/
  - shittyadmin 8y ago
    Do they not also run popularity-contest to collect installation data on packages like Debian did? Or did they get rid of that?
    - popey 8y ago
      No. We don't.
    - mrob 8y ago
      Debian's popularity contest is opt-in (not even installed unless you request it), and AFAIK has always been this way.
inetknght 8y ago
> Oh and it doesn't spy on me Hope you uninstalled all the extra bundled stuff from Amazon and friends.
- Jonnax 8y ago
  Does 18.04 do that?
  - SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
    I'm running the 18.10 Alpha and it was still included, yes. Thankfully it's very easy to remove these days.
  - swebs 8y ago
    18.04 just ships with a hyperlink to Amazon in the sidebar. It does not come with the controversial "Amazon shopping lens" from a few years ago.
    - inetknght 8y ago
      I doubt it's "just" a hyperlink. See my other comment in this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17971394 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17971394 I'd have to download the 18.04 ISO to check, which is currently unfeasible at this moment.
- swebs 8y ago
  >all the extra bundled stuff from Amazon Ubuntu comes with a shortcut to Amazon on the sidebar. Clicking it just opens Amazon.com in Firefox. It doesn't spy on you or anything, it's just a hyperlink. >and friends Such as?
  - inetknght 8y ago
    > It doesn't spy on you or anything, it's just a hyperlink. You are incorrect. It's much more than a hyperlink. It's an application which was installed in Ubuntu. It specifically runs: unity-webapps-runner --amazon --app-id=ubuntu-amazon-default The unity webapps runner manual says (among other things): Application Options: -a, --amazon Launch amazon (with geoclue store selection) -i, --app-id Launch a webapp with a specific APP_ID -c, --chrome Launch a webapp in default browser Look at that. Amazon and Google. The --amazon switch tells amazon where you're at ("geoclue"), at the very least. And, Chrome being the "default" browser? That's funny, because Chrome isn't even installed. So, that webapp also runs /usr/share/unity-webapps/userscripts/unity-webapps-amazon/Amazon.user.js Guess what that script does? If you even accidentally click the Amazon "hyperlink", you've now associated the _machine_ to a user. Okay, ignore that. What else is default installed as webapps? Looking around the /usr/share/unity-webapps directory shows only Google and Amazon. > Such as? In Ubuntu 16.04, the "Search your computer" will also search "sources" such as "Applications", "Dash plugins", "Files & Folders", "Google Drive". Dash plugins include things like Facebook and Google Drive (again?) At least the search bar has more applications than just the proprietary garbage. There's things like Flickr, Shotwell, Yelp, Picasa... hmmm.
richrichardsson 8y ago
Pity that 18.04 is basically a steaming turd, with plenty of broken things ootb. It's hardly surprising, because "you get what you pay for", and you pay exactly zero for it. Don't get me wrong, Linux purely from the command line is awesome, but the desktop experience sucks balls.
- subsection1h 8y ago
  > 18.04 is a steaming turd [...] the desktop experience sucks balls. Based on your vocabulary, I'm assuming you don't install Ubuntu using the network installer and expert mode, and then create your own desktop environment starting with a good window manager like i3. A person like you is definitely better off using macOS or Windows.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
    I've done all that before and I have to agree, the Linux Desktop experience sucks balls. Everything is just so inconsistent and fragile.
  - pimeys 8y ago
    i3 + nixos + the same desktop follows with all my machines. With a simple declarative configuration. Nothing changes, nothing breaks. Emacs + st + firefox and all the programming languages just work.
  - not_kurt_godel 8y ago
    > A person like you is definitely better off using macOS or Windows. I'm not necessarily going to disagree with this - I switched from desktop Ubuntu to Mac and have hardly looked back because I really don't miss constantly dicking around with config files playing UI glitch whack-a-mole. Mac UI certainly has its own healthy share of warts - in fact I find it practically unusable without Divvy and Moom, for starters - but on the whole it's polished, functional, aesthetically pleasing, and usually doesn't get in the way of doing work. Those are all very important qualities to me as someone who spends a non-trivial amount of time doing things outside of a terminal. Just because I'm capable of rolling my own desktop environment doesn't mean I want to or that it's a particularly good use of my time, and I imagine a lot of potential/would-be Linux users probably feel the same way. Being dismissive of that perspective is counterproductive if you believe that the world would be better off with more FOSS usage (as I do).

Ubuntu doesn't mind at all if I change my browser. It even offers several different browsers in its package manager. Oh, and it doesn't spy on me.

by swebs 8y ago

Ubuntu doesn't mind at all if I change my browser. It even offers several different browsers in its package manager. Oh, and it doesn't spy on me.

neilsimp1 8y ago

To be fair, Ubuntu does send usage data to Canonical, unlike some other distros. Whether or not that counts as "spying" to you is another question.

jaimex2 8y ago
I thought it asks you to opt-in when you install?
- testvox 8y ago
  It asks you if you want to opt-out the default is enabled.
- emptyfile 8y ago
  No, its opt out, default is yes.
  - jaimex2 8y ago
    Ah, lazy people like me dont even read... guess thats what theyre counting on.
addicted 8y ago
You can disable that very easily. And as far as I remember when I upgraded to Ubuntu 18.04 on my VM, it asked me whether I was ok with sending anonymous usage data (I believe the default choice was yes which is not ideal but was easy enough to turn off).
- type0 8y ago
  Even if you answer No, it will ping to their servers so that it can count users that did not want it. At least Canonical are honest about it and I'm sure you could at least prevent it with your firewall settings or maybe even by editing the hosts file.
- seabrookmx 8y ago
  This was my experience as well. That and the new "minimal install" option both jumped out at my when I set up my latest dev box.
swebs 8y ago
They only collect data of the installation process. Once installation is complete, no additional data is collected. They've even publicly released the results. >The collected data is not-personally-identifiable. Meaning that a user cannot be singled out or tracked based on the data he/she provided. Here’s what Ubuntu collects > Version and flavor of Ubuntu you’re installing > Whether you have network connectivity at install time > Hardware statistics such as CPU, RAM, GPU, etc > Device manufacturer > Country > Installation time > Whether you choose auto login, installing third-party codecs, downloading updates during install > Disk layout https://itsfoss.com/ubuntu-data-collection-stats/ https://itsfoss.com/ubuntu-data-collection-stats/
- shittyadmin 8y ago
  Do they not also run popularity-contest to collect installation data on packages like Debian did? Or did they get rid of that?
  - popey 8y ago
    No. We don't.
  - mrob 8y ago
    Debian's popularity contest is opt-in (not even installed unless you request it), and AFAIK has always been this way.

inetknght 8y ago

> Oh and it doesn't spy on me Hope you uninstalled all the extra bundled stuff from Amazon and friends.

Jonnax 8y ago
Does 18.04 do that?
- SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
  I'm running the 18.10 Alpha and it was still included, yes. Thankfully it's very easy to remove these days.
- swebs 8y ago
  18.04 just ships with a hyperlink to Amazon in the sidebar. It does not come with the controversial "Amazon shopping lens" from a few years ago.
  - inetknght 8y ago
    I doubt it's "just" a hyperlink. See my other comment in this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17971394 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17971394 I'd have to download the 18.04 ISO to check, which is currently unfeasible at this moment.
swebs 8y ago
>all the extra bundled stuff from Amazon Ubuntu comes with a shortcut to Amazon on the sidebar. Clicking it just opens Amazon.com in Firefox. It doesn't spy on you or anything, it's just a hyperlink. >and friends Such as?
- inetknght 8y ago
  > It doesn't spy on you or anything, it's just a hyperlink. You are incorrect. It's much more than a hyperlink. It's an application which was installed in Ubuntu. It specifically runs: unity-webapps-runner --amazon --app-id=ubuntu-amazon-default The unity webapps runner manual says (among other things): Application Options: -a, --amazon Launch amazon (with geoclue store selection) -i, --app-id Launch a webapp with a specific APP_ID -c, --chrome Launch a webapp in default browser Look at that. Amazon and Google. The --amazon switch tells amazon where you're at ("geoclue"), at the very least. And, Chrome being the "default" browser? That's funny, because Chrome isn't even installed. So, that webapp also runs /usr/share/unity-webapps/userscripts/unity-webapps-amazon/Amazon.user.js Guess what that script does? If you even accidentally click the Amazon "hyperlink", you've now associated the _machine_ to a user. Okay, ignore that. What else is default installed as webapps? Looking around the /usr/share/unity-webapps directory shows only Google and Amazon. > Such as? In Ubuntu 16.04, the "Search your computer" will also search "sources" such as "Applications", "Dash plugins", "Files & Folders", "Google Drive". Dash plugins include things like Facebook and Google Drive (again?) At least the search bar has more applications than just the proprietary garbage. There's things like Flickr, Shotwell, Yelp, Picasa... hmmm.

richrichardsson 8y ago

Pity that 18.04 is basically a steaming turd, with plenty of broken things ootb. It's hardly surprising, because "you get what you pay for", and you pay exactly zero for it. Don't get me wrong, Linux purely from the command line is awesome, but the desktop experience sucks balls.

subsection1h 8y ago
> 18.04 is a steaming turd [...] the desktop experience sucks balls. Based on your vocabulary, I'm assuming you don't install Ubuntu using the network installer and expert mode, and then create your own desktop environment starting with a good window manager like i3. A person like you is definitely better off using macOS or Windows.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
  I've done all that before and I have to agree, the Linux Desktop experience sucks balls. Everything is just so inconsistent and fragile.
- pimeys 8y ago
  i3 + nixos + the same desktop follows with all my machines. With a simple declarative configuration. Nothing changes, nothing breaks. Emacs + st + firefox and all the programming languages just work.
- not_kurt_godel 8y ago
  > A person like you is definitely better off using macOS or Windows. I'm not necessarily going to disagree with this - I switched from desktop Ubuntu to Mac and have hardly looked back because I really don't miss constantly dicking around with config files playing UI glitch whack-a-mole. Mac UI certainly has its own healthy share of warts - in fact I find it practically unusable without Divvy and Moom, for starters - but on the whole it's polished, functional, aesthetically pleasing, and usually doesn't get in the way of doing work. Those are all very important qualities to me as someone who spends a non-trivial amount of time doing things outside of a terminal. Just because I'm capable of rolling my own desktop environment doesn't mean I want to or that it's a particularly good use of my time, and I imagine a lot of potential/would-be Linux users probably feel the same way. Being dismissive of that perspective is counterproductive if you believe that the world would be better off with more FOSS usage (as I do).