4 ms·

Awesomeness. So when do we finally get rid of frameworks upon frameworks upon abstractions upon emulations upon frameworks upon abstractions upon emulations upo

Awesomeness. So when do we finally get rid of frameworks upon frameworks upon abstractions upon emulations upon frameworks upon abstractions upon emulations upon frameworks upon abstractions upon emulations upon frameworks upon abstractions upon emulations upon frameworks upon abstractions upon emulations upon frameworks upon abstractions upon emulations upon frameworks upon emulation done by the cpu?

pjc50 8y ago
What are you willing to give up to get there? The frameworks make everything easier, more portable, more future-proof, more extensible, and quicker to develop. The only cost is that it's all slower and less elegant.
- jbverschoor 8y ago
  It's unnecessary. We are running a: cpu which does abstraction and containers OS on top a container on top an application toolkit a cross platform development framework a browser embedded inside with containers with a javascript vm which runs framework which generates their own, non-standard UI widgets. What am I gaining? Only more layers, and possible flaws Oh, and don't get me started about all the languages
  - pjc50 8y ago
    > What am I gaining? "easier, more portable, more future-proof, more extensible, and quicker to develop"? I mean, people aren't doing it this way simply out of incompetence or for the hell of it. It's also something of a local minimum in the platform wars. We can't have truly cross-platform everything because the platform vendors wouldn't be able to take their cut. The only reason the web survives as a cross-platform platform is it's where they've fought each other to a standstill.
  - konart 8y ago
    >What am I gaining? Free time to do something else but coding.
    - Koshkin 8y ago
      But isn't "coding" fun?
      - konart 8y ago
        It is, but life is much more than just that.
  - snaky 8y ago
    The problem is not a layers, but the way they compose. Advanced fusion techniques do exist, but it's barely applicable to low-level languages like C.
jessedhillon 8y ago
Nothing has been stopping you this entire time from working directly with the hardware, so what are you waiting for? A pre-written set of routines for mapping the idiosyncrasies of different execution environments onto a neat mental model? Coupled perhaps with a set of tools for achieving best practices when using those models? I wonder what we might call such a convenient arrangement...
red75prime 8y ago
We'll get very fast single program environment which is not transferable to another slightly different computer.
crististm 8y ago
If it suits you, look at car industry: once in a while the bloat is removed and an end of the line car is transformed into an entry one with all the modern essentials there and none of the crap. Or you get your own team and build the equivalent of a Subaru Rally car by investing a similar budget

pjc50 8y ago

What are you willing to give up to get there? The frameworks make everything easier, more portable, more future-proof, more extensible, and quicker to develop. The only cost is that it's all slower and less elegant.

jbverschoor 8y ago
It's unnecessary. We are running a: cpu which does abstraction and containers OS on top a container on top an application toolkit a cross platform development framework a browser embedded inside with containers with a javascript vm which runs framework which generates their own, non-standard UI widgets. What am I gaining? Only more layers, and possible flaws Oh, and don't get me started about all the languages
- pjc50 8y ago
  > What am I gaining? "easier, more portable, more future-proof, more extensible, and quicker to develop"? I mean, people aren't doing it this way simply out of incompetence or for the hell of it. It's also something of a local minimum in the platform wars. We can't have truly cross-platform everything because the platform vendors wouldn't be able to take their cut. The only reason the web survives as a cross-platform platform is it's where they've fought each other to a standstill.
- konart 8y ago
  >What am I gaining? Free time to do something else but coding.
  - Koshkin 8y ago
    But isn't "coding" fun?
    - konart 8y ago
      It is, but life is much more than just that.
- snaky 8y ago
  The problem is not a layers, but the way they compose. Advanced fusion techniques do exist, but it's barely applicable to low-level languages like C.

jessedhillon 8y ago

Nothing has been stopping you this entire time from working directly with the hardware, so what are you waiting for? A pre-written set of routines for mapping the idiosyncrasies of different execution environments onto a neat mental model? Coupled perhaps with a set of tools for achieving best practices when using those models? I wonder what we might call such a convenient arrangement...

red75prime 8y ago

We'll get very fast single program environment which is not transferable to another slightly different computer.

crististm 8y ago

If it suits you, look at car industry: once in a while the bloat is removed and an end of the line car is transformed into an entry one with all the modern essentials there and none of the crap. Or you get your own team and build the equivalent of a Subaru Rally car by investing a similar budget