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Yes, I agree. I was lucky, but many people get screwed in divorce. Both women and men. Men because, as in your case, they get penalized financially. But it's i

Yes, I agree. I was lucky, but many people get screwed in divorce. Both women and men. Men because, as in your case, they get penalized financially. But it's important to remember that laws and legal precedent about support for former female partners came about because women often got screwed financially in divorce. Even if they could even get a divorce. And sometimes women still get screwed financially, and in other ways, by divorce. Child support is sometimes inadequate, or effectively not collectable. And women traditionally contributed unpaid labor, in the form of housework and childcare. And often, they were (and even now, sometimes are) more-or-less unprepared for decent jobs. Anyway, based on other comments, a key argument in favor of marriage, for long-term relationships, is clarification of intentions. That's especially crucial, obviously, if there will be children. Without a marriage, it's all subject to litigation. And if partners have resources that they want to protect, they can negotiate a prenup.

poulsbohemian 8y ago
>Child support is sometimes inadequate, or effectively not collectable. And women traditionally contributed unpaid labor, in the form of housework and childcare. By my thinking, this is #metoo level stuff. If we're to have equality, then it is time to stop pretending that women are the only parents and that they can't also hold professional jobs. I would posit that equality cannot exist so long as we continue to hold these outmoded views on gender roles. And yes, I agree that means that it is imperative that men continue to step up to the plate, whether within marriage or outside. >Even if they could even get a divorce. I'm male. It took me two+ years of legal battles to get a divorce. Tell me how this is a female-only issue? Side note: I have my kids > 60% of the time, but pay out child support, as enforced by state law, as though she has them 100% of the time. I pay all of their various expenses - clothes, medical, camps, activities, etc, because despite what the divorce decree says and despite what I pay her in spousal support AND child support, she will just continue to whine that she has no money. She walked away with a net worth > $500,000, I walked away with a net worth of approximately negative-$100,000. So anyone that tells me how women get screwed... well I have some words for you.
- mirimir 8y ago
  Yes, I get that you've had a difficult divorce. I empathize. In saying "[e]ven if they could even get a divorce", I was speaking historically. In the US, as recently as the late 19th century or the early 20th century. That's the context in which activists got current divorce law established. And about gender roles. I didn't mean to promote "outmoded views on gender roles". In my opinion, that's for partners to negotiate. But it's undeniable that those traditional gender roles remain all too prevalent. Also, as in your case, it's unfair that you pay 100% child support but additionally contribute well over 50% of childcare, both in time and money. It's just that you married an asshole. Or more charitably, a victim who likely gets validation (socially and legally) for casting you as the asshole.
  - poulsbohemian 8y ago
    >But it's undeniable that those traditional gender roles remain all too prevalent. Agreed - and my point is this is codified in law, even in my nominally politically progressive state. As many of the other posters in this thread have pointed out, this isn't just sour grapes, but rather a bankruptcy-producing problem perhaps on the same order as our systemic problems with health-induced financial calamity. It is an example of systemic government failure.

poulsbohemian 8y ago

>Child support is sometimes inadequate, or effectively not collectable. And women traditionally contributed unpaid labor, in the form of housework and childcare. By my thinking, this is #metoo level stuff. If we're to have equality, then it is time to stop pretending that women are the only parents and that they can't also hold professional jobs. I would posit that equality cannot exist so long as we continue to hold these outmoded views on gender roles. And yes, I agree that means that it is imperative that men continue to step up to the plate, whether within marriage or outside. >Even if they could even get a divorce. I'm male. It took me two+ years of legal battles to get a divorce. Tell me how this is a female-only issue? Side note: I have my kids > 60% of the time, but pay out child support, as enforced by state law, as though she has them 100% of the time. I pay all of their various expenses - clothes, medical, camps, activities, etc, because despite what the divorce decree says and despite what I pay her in spousal support AND child support, she will just continue to whine that she has no money. She walked away with a net worth > $500,000, I walked away with a net worth of approximately negative-$100,000. So anyone that tells me how women get screwed... well I have some words for you.

mirimir 8y ago
Yes, I get that you've had a difficult divorce. I empathize. In saying "[e]ven if they could even get a divorce", I was speaking historically. In the US, as recently as the late 19th century or the early 20th century. That's the context in which activists got current divorce law established. And about gender roles. I didn't mean to promote "outmoded views on gender roles". In my opinion, that's for partners to negotiate. But it's undeniable that those traditional gender roles remain all too prevalent. Also, as in your case, it's unfair that you pay 100% child support but additionally contribute well over 50% of childcare, both in time and money. It's just that you married an asshole. Or more charitably, a victim who likely gets validation (socially and legally) for casting you as the asshole.
- poulsbohemian 8y ago
  >But it's undeniable that those traditional gender roles remain all too prevalent. Agreed - and my point is this is codified in law, even in my nominally politically progressive state. As many of the other posters in this thread have pointed out, this isn't just sour grapes, but rather a bankruptcy-producing problem perhaps on the same order as our systemic problems with health-induced financial calamity. It is an example of systemic government failure.