6 ms·

I'd argue that legal immigration has the greatest impact on higher sectors of society- such as salaries in software / IT. This can be fixed by raising the minim

by sdinsn 8y ago

I'd argue that legal immigration has the greatest impact on higher sectors of society- such as salaries in software / IT. This can be fixed by raising the minimum pay for H1Bs. I'd believe that illegal immigration has a incredibly small effect overall.

kevin_thibedeau 8y ago
The illegals are all picking strawberries for below minimum wage so we don't have the bear the true costs of our food. Remove them and there would be serious repercussions for those at the lower strata of society.
- fzeroracer 8y ago
  As you've mentioned the real cost of food and farming in the US is effectively heavily subsidized by the fact that many of said farms employ illegal immigrants for labor, both because they refuse to pay minimum wage and because Americans as a whole seem to refuse to do said jobs. Legal immigration has a comparatively small effect due to the fact that they're part of the skilled labor force and generally fill gaps in our society. The number of people actually holding H1Bs is so small that I find it hard to believe they have any major pull on the various sectors outside of the few firms that are known to be abusing the system. Fixing the system in a humane way that also doesn't blow up the lower classes is a herculean task.
  - chrisbennet 8y ago
    If we raised farm labor wages by 40% it would cost the consumer less than $25 a year. ”For a typical household, a 40 percent increase in farm labor costs translates into a four percent increase in retail prices (0.30 farm share of retail prices x 0.33 farm labor share of farm revenue = 10 percent, farm labor costs rise 40 percent, and 0.4 x 10 = 3.6 percent). If farm wages rose 40 percent, and the increase were passed on fully to consumers, average spending on fresh fruits and vegetables would rise by about $21 a year (4 percent x $530 = $21). Giving seasonal farm workers a 40 percent wage increase, on the other hand, would raise their average earnings from $11,720 for 1,000 hours of work to $16,400, lifting the average worker above the federal poverty line of $11,770 for an individual in 2015.” https://migration.ucdavis.edu/rmn/more.php?id=2005 https://migration.ucdavis.edu/rmn/more.php?id=2005
    - jpttsn 8y ago
      I dont think the average consumer wants to pay $25 more per year.
      - Tempest1981 8y ago
        We do like inexpensive merchandise. http://dilbert.com/strip/2007-05-01 http://dilbert.com/strip/2007-05-01
    - michaelt 8y ago
      Doesn't the average consumer spends a lot more than $530 a year on farmed goods?
- beamatronic 8y ago
  Has anyone ever calculated the maximum possible wage for a job? Take strawberry picking for an example. If run by a non-profit, what is the highest possible wage? Would be interesting to see this relative to the actual wage.
  - eitally 8y ago
    http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-farms-immigration/ http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-farms-immigration/
  - TangoTrotFox 8y ago
    The entire farming industry is distorted. It's much more subsidized and controlled than most industries. For instance we literally pay some farmers not to grow food. And at times when harvests are high the government will prevent farmers from marketing some portion of their harvest which, in extreme cases, can mean that food simply ends up getting destroyed. It's all about extreme manipulation of supply to try to control prices. I'm not really supporting or opposing the system, which is a topic for another place, but just mentioning that farming is not like people think it is. So trying to determine what 'market wages' would be like is not really possible when much of the entire industry is operated outside the bounds of the market.
    - toofy 8y ago
      > For instance we literally pay some farmers not to grow food. And at times when harvests are high the government will prevent farmers from marketing some portion of their harvest which, in extreme cases, can mean that food simply ends up getting destroyed Wait, so they are intentionally keeping food prices higher by paying people to not grow food? I mean, I understand that we need farmers and dipping food price markets isn't ideal, but... wow... what a world.
      - oblio 8y ago
        It's most likely from the Grand Depression, when farmers were literally throwing away food because of over production. Subsidies smooth out production cycles and keep farmers in business.
- unholythree 8y ago
  An anecdotal observation. In the majority black city where I live 50% of black men are unemployed but if you look at the numerous construction sites workers are largely Hispanic. I worked at a hotel for several years in the early 2000's the housekeeping staff was overwhelmingly black women and men but shifted dramatically to Hispanic women and men after new penny pinching ownership took over and started using some dubious temp agency. I don't begrudge the immigrants, I'm second gen on one side and wanting a better life is completely reasonable. I do however think it's completely disgraceful that we turn a blind eye to employers that break the law because they don't want to pay a living wage, or want compliant semi-disposable workers.
  - candiodari 8y ago
    > I worked at a hotel for several years in the early 2000's the housekeeping staff was overwhelmingly black women and men but shifted dramatically to Hispanic women and men The Hispanic staff that doesn't seem to have anything close to living wage is a pervasive feature in the Bay Area too. I'm not sure if, and to what extent, they displaced black workers in the Bay Area though.
- burfog 8y ago
  Let's substitute some words here: The slaves are all picking cotton for below minimum wage so we don't have the bear the true costs of our clothing. Remove them and there would be serious repercussions for those at the lower strata of society. This is not looking very nice, to put it mildly.
- SlowRobotAhead 8y ago
  So you’re saying those illegals are basically slaves? Wouldn’t the ethical thing to prevent illegal immigration into the country knowing that these people may be abused?
  - toofy 8y ago
    Well, I would personally argue the ethical thing would be to pay workers a fair wage.
  - 3eto 8y ago
    The ethical thing could also be to not allow anyone to be abused.

by sdinsn 8y ago

kevin_thibedeau 8y ago

The illegals are all picking strawberries for below minimum wage so we don't have the bear the true costs of our food. Remove them and there would be serious repercussions for those at the lower strata of society.

fzeroracer 8y ago
As you've mentioned the real cost of food and farming in the US is effectively heavily subsidized by the fact that many of said farms employ illegal immigrants for labor, both because they refuse to pay minimum wage and because Americans as a whole seem to refuse to do said jobs. Legal immigration has a comparatively small effect due to the fact that they're part of the skilled labor force and generally fill gaps in our society. The number of people actually holding H1Bs is so small that I find it hard to believe they have any major pull on the various sectors outside of the few firms that are known to be abusing the system. Fixing the system in a humane way that also doesn't blow up the lower classes is a herculean task.
- chrisbennet 8y ago
  If we raised farm labor wages by 40% it would cost the consumer less than $25 a year. ”For a typical household, a 40 percent increase in farm labor costs translates into a four percent increase in retail prices (0.30 farm share of retail prices x 0.33 farm labor share of farm revenue = 10 percent, farm labor costs rise 40 percent, and 0.4 x 10 = 3.6 percent). If farm wages rose 40 percent, and the increase were passed on fully to consumers, average spending on fresh fruits and vegetables would rise by about $21 a year (4 percent x $530 = $21). Giving seasonal farm workers a 40 percent wage increase, on the other hand, would raise their average earnings from $11,720 for 1,000 hours of work to $16,400, lifting the average worker above the federal poverty line of $11,770 for an individual in 2015.” https://migration.ucdavis.edu/rmn/more.php?id=2005 https://migration.ucdavis.edu/rmn/more.php?id=2005
  - jpttsn 8y ago
    I dont think the average consumer wants to pay $25 more per year.
    - Tempest1981 8y ago
      We do like inexpensive merchandise. http://dilbert.com/strip/2007-05-01 http://dilbert.com/strip/2007-05-01
  - michaelt 8y ago
    Doesn't the average consumer spends a lot more than $530 a year on farmed goods?
beamatronic 8y ago
Has anyone ever calculated the maximum possible wage for a job? Take strawberry picking for an example. If run by a non-profit, what is the highest possible wage? Would be interesting to see this relative to the actual wage.
- eitally 8y ago
  http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-farms-immigration/ http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-farms-immigration/
- TangoTrotFox 8y ago
  The entire farming industry is distorted. It's much more subsidized and controlled than most industries. For instance we literally pay some farmers not to grow food. And at times when harvests are high the government will prevent farmers from marketing some portion of their harvest which, in extreme cases, can mean that food simply ends up getting destroyed. It's all about extreme manipulation of supply to try to control prices. I'm not really supporting or opposing the system, which is a topic for another place, but just mentioning that farming is not like people think it is. So trying to determine what 'market wages' would be like is not really possible when much of the entire industry is operated outside the bounds of the market.
  - toofy 8y ago
    > For instance we literally pay some farmers not to grow food. And at times when harvests are high the government will prevent farmers from marketing some portion of their harvest which, in extreme cases, can mean that food simply ends up getting destroyed Wait, so they are intentionally keeping food prices higher by paying people to not grow food? I mean, I understand that we need farmers and dipping food price markets isn't ideal, but... wow... what a world.
    - oblio 8y ago
      It's most likely from the Grand Depression, when farmers were literally throwing away food because of over production. Subsidies smooth out production cycles and keep farmers in business.
unholythree 8y ago
An anecdotal observation. In the majority black city where I live 50% of black men are unemployed but if you look at the numerous construction sites workers are largely Hispanic. I worked at a hotel for several years in the early 2000's the housekeeping staff was overwhelmingly black women and men but shifted dramatically to Hispanic women and men after new penny pinching ownership took over and started using some dubious temp agency. I don't begrudge the immigrants, I'm second gen on one side and wanting a better life is completely reasonable. I do however think it's completely disgraceful that we turn a blind eye to employers that break the law because they don't want to pay a living wage, or want compliant semi-disposable workers.
- candiodari 8y ago
  > I worked at a hotel for several years in the early 2000's the housekeeping staff was overwhelmingly black women and men but shifted dramatically to Hispanic women and men The Hispanic staff that doesn't seem to have anything close to living wage is a pervasive feature in the Bay Area too. I'm not sure if, and to what extent, they displaced black workers in the Bay Area though.
burfog 8y ago
Let's substitute some words here: The slaves are all picking cotton for below minimum wage so we don't have the bear the true costs of our clothing. Remove them and there would be serious repercussions for those at the lower strata of society. This is not looking very nice, to put it mildly.
SlowRobotAhead 8y ago
So you’re saying those illegals are basically slaves? Wouldn’t the ethical thing to prevent illegal immigration into the country knowing that these people may be abused?
- toofy 8y ago
  Well, I would personally argue the ethical thing would be to pay workers a fair wage.
- 3eto 8y ago
  The ethical thing could also be to not allow anyone to be abused.