8 ms·

Hundreds of Roman gold coins found in basement of old theater

67 points by daddy_drank 8y ago

pmiri 8y ago
Best word of the article has to be numismatist: expert in rare coins.
- hyperbovine 8y ago
  See also philatelist, notaphilist, lepidopterist, coleopterist, dipterist, etc.
  - mjlee 8y ago
    Philately will get you nowhere.
- atwebb 8y ago
  To punch it up a bit, it's anyone with an interest in collecting/preserving coins or currency. Doesn't have to be an expert or rare. Coin/paper money/exonumia (tokens, fantasy issues) collectering = Numismatics Also, fun fact for anyone reading, you can buy true, ancient Roman/Greek coins for a few bucks. Nice silver examples from certain well known emperors are often <$50. Just go on vcoins or somewhere reputable.
  - anfractuosity 8y ago
    Yeah I always thought that the price of Roman coins, compared to more recent coins such as Tudor etc. is so cheap, I assume that's mainly due to there being so many of them?
    - atwebb 8y ago
      I believe so, and I'm referring to bronze coins (so pennies/low value). It's likely that there are just a slew of them as well. Rome existed for 1000 years and was developed and widespread. They would have travelling mints go along with the armies/expeditions and mint coinage on site. It winds up spreading to everywhere, hence the hoards found in the UK. It may have been that less were melted down as well, Roman currency was good for a long time.
    - mullen 8y ago
      A lot of the bronze coins claiming to be from the Romain era are fakes. It is fairly simple and cheap to make a fake Romain bronze coin and after selling it to a tourist for $5, fairly profitable. What I find funny is that when you tell a tourist they bought a fake bronze coin, the vast majority of them don't even care.
    - vondur 8y ago
      Yes, they really made of bunch of coins in the later part of the Roman Empire. Plus, the Romans didn't quite understand some basic economic principles and then would release new coins of higher quality to replace older ones of dubious quality. Since they didn't take back older coins, they just flooded the market with new coins, thus adding to the inflation problems of the third century.
  - bytematic 8y ago
    A grad student in ancient study told me it was unethical to own actual coins. Is that true or does it refer to undocumented ones?
- toyg 8y ago
  My maternal grandfather was one, in Italy. Had his golden age in the early '70s, when numismatica and stamp-collecting were worth real money. He even got a personal letter from the Pope, thanking him for help in moving some special-edition Vatican-issued coins. But it's been a slow decline ever since, and the shop was closed after he retired. I knew him as a sort of old "Del Boy" character, but in his heyday he flashed some real bling - houses, big cars, and so on - some of which he even managed not to waste before passing. Somewhere at my parents', I probably still have a bunch of early-80s albums with some not-particularly-rare Roman coins in them. Despite the gift, it was a hobby I really didn't care for, to his displeasure. Nowadays, I understand it's a very, very small game.
claydavisss 8y ago
This is a great example of why people still hold gold as a safehaven asset of last resort; it was valuable two thousand years ago and it is still valuable today. Gold's value has survived being buried, natural disasters, war, peace, ends-of-empires and anything else the world has thrown at it. Even after two thousand years it is simple enough to verify that gold is relatively pure.
- lixtra 8y ago
  But now imagine if the owners had invested into a well diversified ETF back then!
  - moate 8y ago
    I mean sure you could hoard a pile of gold but if the owner had been able to find a bank that continued to exist and provided compound interest...
- 21 8y ago
  This gold in the day would have made you one of the richest persons around. But today that gold is worth only about $50k (300 coins * 5 grams) The millions of dollars quoted are the historical artefact value.
  - claydavisss 8y ago
    Right, I was referring to the assayed value, not the historical value. Gold is basically unique in history as a material with very little practical essential use for most people who have held it...yet holds value durably over the centuries.
    - tehwebguy 8y ago
      Finally, an investment vehicle I can bury for 1600 years and know it will still have value when I come back to it!
    - moate 8y ago
pp19dd 8y ago
Late imperial era, a slightly fuzzy date range. Included emperors Marcus Aurelius, Commodus (hello, Hollywood), followed by a very turbulent period from which my favorite emperor comes from, Geta. Because you don't want to be a Geta. Powers that be issued a damnatio memoriae after his assassination where they tried to erase every trace of him, including his images from portraits: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/08/Portrait_of_family_of_Septimius_Severus_-_Altes_Museum_-_Berlin_-_Germany_2017.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/08/Portrait...
- mojowo11 8y ago
  For anyone else as ignorant about this period of history as me, the Wikipedia articles are a real trip. Geta -- murdered by his co-emperor and brother because they didn't like each other (aged 22) Caracalla (the brother) -- murdered at the behest of Macrinus while urinating on the side of the road (aged 29) Macrinus -- reigned one year before being defeated by an uprising that brought 14-year-old Elagabalus to power, ultimately beheaded Elagabalus -- married and divorced five times during his four-year reign, including to the widow of a man he had executed and possibly also to a man; was assassinated by his own Praetorian Guards, beheaded, and his body was dragged around Rome (aged ~18) Severus Alexander -- replaced cousin Elagabalus, did alright for quite a while (13 year reign!), but ultimately pissed off his military by trying to not fight the Germans, and was assassinated by his own generals, along with his mother Maximinus -- made emperor by the Praetorian Guard, which caused the Senate to revolt; marched on Rome to put down the revolt, and was opposed by a series of emperors (numbered below) nominated by the Senate; ultimately murdered by his own military after failing to easily take Rome (1/2) Gordian I/Gordian II -- father and son, rose to power while in Africa at the behest of the Senate; Gordian II was quickly defeated in battle by a supporter of Maximinus, after which Gordian I killed himself (reigned 21 days) (3/4) Pupienus/Balbinus -- co-emperors after the death of the Gordians. Pupienus went out to fight Maximinus on the field, and returned to Rome successful. Balbinus stayed in Rome and fucked everything up. The two did not get along or trust each other, and ultimately both were murdered by the Praetorian Guard (reigned 3 months) (5) Gordian III - Made Emperor at the age of 13 and sorta held it together for a remarkably long time, but ultimately died in Mesopotamia either at the hands of military enemies or his own army (aged 19) I'm only stopping because I need to get back to work.
bswitzer8 8y ago
Sounds like back in the day it was still expensive to go to the theater.
atwebb 8y ago
For anyone curious (I'm no expert) on the period value of this, I've seen estimates of ~$750,000 of purchasing power. These are Aureus which equal 25 Denarius (silver coin of the time) which is roughly 1 full day of labor. So ball park 25 years of labor at 300 working days a year. I realize this is fuzzy, just an idea.

67 points by daddy_drank 8y ago

pmiri 8y ago

Best word of the article has to be numismatist: expert in rare coins.

hyperbovine 8y ago
See also philatelist, notaphilist, lepidopterist, coleopterist, dipterist, etc.
- mjlee 8y ago
  Philately will get you nowhere.
atwebb 8y ago
To punch it up a bit, it's anyone with an interest in collecting/preserving coins or currency. Doesn't have to be an expert or rare. Coin/paper money/exonumia (tokens, fantasy issues) collectering = Numismatics Also, fun fact for anyone reading, you can buy true, ancient Roman/Greek coins for a few bucks. Nice silver examples from certain well known emperors are often <$50. Just go on vcoins or somewhere reputable.
- anfractuosity 8y ago
  Yeah I always thought that the price of Roman coins, compared to more recent coins such as Tudor etc. is so cheap, I assume that's mainly due to there being so many of them?
  - atwebb 8y ago
    I believe so, and I'm referring to bronze coins (so pennies/low value). It's likely that there are just a slew of them as well. Rome existed for 1000 years and was developed and widespread. They would have travelling mints go along with the armies/expeditions and mint coinage on site. It winds up spreading to everywhere, hence the hoards found in the UK. It may have been that less were melted down as well, Roman currency was good for a long time.
  - mullen 8y ago
    A lot of the bronze coins claiming to be from the Romain era are fakes. It is fairly simple and cheap to make a fake Romain bronze coin and after selling it to a tourist for $5, fairly profitable. What I find funny is that when you tell a tourist they bought a fake bronze coin, the vast majority of them don't even care.
  - vondur 8y ago
    Yes, they really made of bunch of coins in the later part of the Roman Empire. Plus, the Romans didn't quite understand some basic economic principles and then would release new coins of higher quality to replace older ones of dubious quality. Since they didn't take back older coins, they just flooded the market with new coins, thus adding to the inflation problems of the third century.
- bytematic 8y ago
  A grad student in ancient study told me it was unethical to own actual coins. Is that true or does it refer to undocumented ones?
toyg 8y ago
My maternal grandfather was one, in Italy. Had his golden age in the early '70s, when numismatica and stamp-collecting were worth real money. He even got a personal letter from the Pope, thanking him for help in moving some special-edition Vatican-issued coins. But it's been a slow decline ever since, and the shop was closed after he retired. I knew him as a sort of old "Del Boy" character, but in his heyday he flashed some real bling - houses, big cars, and so on - some of which he even managed not to waste before passing. Somewhere at my parents', I probably still have a bunch of early-80s albums with some not-particularly-rare Roman coins in them. Despite the gift, it was a hobby I really didn't care for, to his displeasure. Nowadays, I understand it's a very, very small game.

claydavisss 8y ago

This is a great example of why people still hold gold as a safehaven asset of last resort; it was valuable two thousand years ago and it is still valuable today. Gold's value has survived being buried, natural disasters, war, peace, ends-of-empires and anything else the world has thrown at it. Even after two thousand years it is simple enough to verify that gold is relatively pure.

lixtra 8y ago
But now imagine if the owners had invested into a well diversified ETF back then!
- moate 8y ago
  I mean sure you could hoard a pile of gold but if the owner had been able to find a bank that continued to exist and provided compound interest...
21 8y ago
This gold in the day would have made you one of the richest persons around. But today that gold is worth only about $50k (300 coins * 5 grams) The millions of dollars quoted are the historical artefact value.
- claydavisss 8y ago
  Right, I was referring to the assayed value, not the historical value. Gold is basically unique in history as a material with very little practical essential use for most people who have held it...yet holds value durably over the centuries.
  - tehwebguy 8y ago
    Finally, an investment vehicle I can bury for 1600 years and know it will still have value when I come back to it!
  - moate 8y ago

pp19dd 8y ago

Late imperial era, a slightly fuzzy date range. Included emperors Marcus Aurelius, Commodus (hello, Hollywood), followed by a very turbulent period from which my favorite emperor comes from, Geta. Because you don't want to be a Geta. Powers that be issued a damnatio memoriae after his assassination where they tried to erase every trace of him, including his images from portraits: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/08/Portrait_of_family_of_Septimius_Severus_-_Altes_Museum_-_Berlin_-_Germany_2017.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/08/Portrait...

mojowo11 8y ago
For anyone else as ignorant about this period of history as me, the Wikipedia articles are a real trip. Geta -- murdered by his co-emperor and brother because they didn't like each other (aged 22) Caracalla (the brother) -- murdered at the behest of Macrinus while urinating on the side of the road (aged 29) Macrinus -- reigned one year before being defeated by an uprising that brought 14-year-old Elagabalus to power, ultimately beheaded Elagabalus -- married and divorced five times during his four-year reign, including to the widow of a man he had executed and possibly also to a man; was assassinated by his own Praetorian Guards, beheaded, and his body was dragged around Rome (aged ~18) Severus Alexander -- replaced cousin Elagabalus, did alright for quite a while (13 year reign!), but ultimately pissed off his military by trying to not fight the Germans, and was assassinated by his own generals, along with his mother Maximinus -- made emperor by the Praetorian Guard, which caused the Senate to revolt; marched on Rome to put down the revolt, and was opposed by a series of emperors (numbered below) nominated by the Senate; ultimately murdered by his own military after failing to easily take Rome (1/2) Gordian I/Gordian II -- father and son, rose to power while in Africa at the behest of the Senate; Gordian II was quickly defeated in battle by a supporter of Maximinus, after which Gordian I killed himself (reigned 21 days) (3/4) Pupienus/Balbinus -- co-emperors after the death of the Gordians. Pupienus went out to fight Maximinus on the field, and returned to Rome successful. Balbinus stayed in Rome and fucked everything up. The two did not get along or trust each other, and ultimately both were murdered by the Praetorian Guard (reigned 3 months) (5) Gordian III - Made Emperor at the age of 13 and sorta held it together for a remarkably long time, but ultimately died in Mesopotamia either at the hands of military enemies or his own army (aged 19) I'm only stopping because I need to get back to work.

bswitzer8 8y ago

Sounds like back in the day it was still expensive to go to the theater.

atwebb 8y ago

For anyone curious (I'm no expert) on the period value of this, I've seen estimates of ~$750,000 of purchasing power. These are Aureus which equal 25 Denarius (silver coin of the time) which is roughly 1 full day of labor. So ball park 25 years of labor at 300 working days a year. I realize this is fuzzy, just an idea.