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The market is not looking to hire a bunch more unskilled 18 year olds. If the U.S. military wasn't essentially a workforce development program for unskilled 18-

The market is not looking to hire a bunch more unskilled 18 year olds. If the U.S. military wasn't essentially a workforce development program for unskilled 18-year-olds, we would have an even bigger glut. Your argument is flawed. This may be true for master's degrees, where it makes sense to work full time and take courses part time, but the idea that it makes sense for a bunch of 18-year-olds to try to compete over a bunch of minimum wage jobs doesn't seem like a great solution. Most jobs for 18 year olds cannot over living expenses and college tuition.

Alupis 8y ago
Working professional doesn't necessarily mean bachelor-degree professionals. There are plenty of places that hire students full-time, for interships or full positions. Students can even get unskilled jobs - nothing wrong with that. Working at McDonald's, possibly working you way up to shift leader, team leader or manager is perfectly acceptable. Just so that you work full-time.
- fzeroracer 8y ago
  You're extremely out of touch with the modern day job market and issues students face. There's zero to very little career advancement while working minimum wage jobs. Minimum wage jobs won't even cover the cost of rent in most states, let alone the full cost of living and the cost of college. Saying that there are 'plenty of places' is also outright wrong considering the competition for minimum wage jobs is harsh; it's not just students that are in the pool.
  - Alupis 8y ago
    You're talking to a student who's spent 15 years attending community college and then University while working several full-time jobs to get to where I am today. Don't tell me I'm out of touch when I'm living exactly what I'm preaching. Don't tell me it's impossible when I'm doing exactly what I advocate for. It's time to change the University system... and standing here and saying these things are too hard to fix is why it's so broken. The solution isn't more tax-payer subsidies... it's fixing what we expect out of Universities, and what we expect out of students.
    - fzeroracer 8y ago
      And you're talking to someone that went through it all the same. Just because it's worked out for you doesn't make your experience the norm for all students. If you're expecting all students to spend 15+ years working just to get through their degree then I would argue that system is just as fucked up as the one we currently have. The solution is to make college free for students and wipe away student loan debt. You're not going to fix the expectations, and even if you did that doesn't solve the mess we're in right now, does it?
      - Alupis 8y ago
        Why do we need a solution "right now"? Why can't we take the time to get it right - instead of applying just another band-aid that will need further fixing a few years down the road. Enough band-aids... Not everyone needs to attend University and get a shiny degree - we need to stop that narrative while we're at it. There's plenty of trades that pay well and are in high demand. There's nothing wrong with being a blue collar worker, and we need to, as a society, stop thumbing our nose at it. I assert making college free for students has two effects: 1) Makes the experience less valuable for the individual. 2) Increases taxpayer burden for largely frivolous degree programs. Number one is because without "skin in the game", it's difficult to appreciate what you have. How many of us look back and truly appreciate High School classes? They were free for most of us... but it was just something you had to do to get on with your life. You weren't there because you wanted to be. You weren't hungry to learn, and you certainly don't remember every detail from 11th grade literature class, nor are you applying those experiences to your work today. We risk turning University into the same experience, and in the process we devalue bachelor degree programs more-so than they already are. That's not to say University should spin you into massive debt - we need to fix that too, but I refer back to my original assertions about encouraging (or mandating) full-time employment while attending school. Number two is because, imo, there's a large number of degree programs that should not capture taxpayer funding or offer loans. If you're going to major in psychology, you almost certainly should continue through to a master's program or higher - if you stop with a bachelors, your job prospects are extremely limited. If you're going to major in art history - we need to be realistic with expectations... you're probably not going to find a job in that field very easily if at all. We do our students a disservice by brainwashing everyone into believing going to University and graduating in 4 years with a shiny bachelors degree is the only way to earn a decent living. Reality is all too often the opposite - people graduating after 5-7 years with degrees industry doesn't want and zero experience in what industry expects, only to find out students can't secure well-paying jobs several years after leaving University. It's no surprise really.

Alupis 8y ago

Working professional doesn't necessarily mean bachelor-degree professionals. There are plenty of places that hire students full-time, for interships or full positions. Students can even get unskilled jobs - nothing wrong with that. Working at McDonald's, possibly working you way up to shift leader, team leader or manager is perfectly acceptable. Just so that you work full-time.

fzeroracer 8y ago
You're extremely out of touch with the modern day job market and issues students face. There's zero to very little career advancement while working minimum wage jobs. Minimum wage jobs won't even cover the cost of rent in most states, let alone the full cost of living and the cost of college. Saying that there are 'plenty of places' is also outright wrong considering the competition for minimum wage jobs is harsh; it's not just students that are in the pool.
- Alupis 8y ago
  You're talking to a student who's spent 15 years attending community college and then University while working several full-time jobs to get to where I am today. Don't tell me I'm out of touch when I'm living exactly what I'm preaching. Don't tell me it's impossible when I'm doing exactly what I advocate for. It's time to change the University system... and standing here and saying these things are too hard to fix is why it's so broken. The solution isn't more tax-payer subsidies... it's fixing what we expect out of Universities, and what we expect out of students.
  - fzeroracer 8y ago
    And you're talking to someone that went through it all the same. Just because it's worked out for you doesn't make your experience the norm for all students. If you're expecting all students to spend 15+ years working just to get through their degree then I would argue that system is just as fucked up as the one we currently have. The solution is to make college free for students and wipe away student loan debt. You're not going to fix the expectations, and even if you did that doesn't solve the mess we're in right now, does it?
    - Alupis 8y ago
      Why do we need a solution "right now"? Why can't we take the time to get it right - instead of applying just another band-aid that will need further fixing a few years down the road. Enough band-aids... Not everyone needs to attend University and get a shiny degree - we need to stop that narrative while we're at it. There's plenty of trades that pay well and are in high demand. There's nothing wrong with being a blue collar worker, and we need to, as a society, stop thumbing our nose at it. I assert making college free for students has two effects: 1) Makes the experience less valuable for the individual. 2) Increases taxpayer burden for largely frivolous degree programs. Number one is because without "skin in the game", it's difficult to appreciate what you have. How many of us look back and truly appreciate High School classes? They were free for most of us... but it was just something you had to do to get on with your life. You weren't there because you wanted to be. You weren't hungry to learn, and you certainly don't remember every detail from 11th grade literature class, nor are you applying those experiences to your work today. We risk turning University into the same experience, and in the process we devalue bachelor degree programs more-so than they already are. That's not to say University should spin you into massive debt - we need to fix that too, but I refer back to my original assertions about encouraging (or mandating) full-time employment while attending school. Number two is because, imo, there's a large number of degree programs that should not capture taxpayer funding or offer loans. If you're going to major in psychology, you almost certainly should continue through to a master's program or higher - if you stop with a bachelors, your job prospects are extremely limited. If you're going to major in art history - we need to be realistic with expectations... you're probably not going to find a job in that field very easily if at all. We do our students a disservice by brainwashing everyone into believing going to University and graduating in 4 years with a shiny bachelors degree is the only way to earn a decent living. Reality is all too often the opposite - people graduating after 5-7 years with degrees industry doesn't want and zero experience in what industry expects, only to find out students can't secure well-paying jobs several years after leaving University. It's no surprise really.