4 ms·

I dont work in tech, im an engine mechanic by trade, but im fascinated to know why/how often this happens in a tech interview? Do programmers/sys admins really

I dont work in tech, im an engine mechanic by trade, but im fascinated to know why/how often this happens in a tech interview? Do programmers/sys admins really endure this kind of aggravation in their interviews? The hardest question I've ever asked one of my shop mechanics during an interview was how does Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) in a Diesel engine affect thermal efficiency, smoke output and emissions of the engine...and that was for a full-time diesel tech at our cross town location. id imagine if i ever started throwing out manhole cover questions or underwater airplane bullshit, i'd catch some hands before I managed to hire anyone.

pinewurst 8y ago
As a long time tech person, it wasn't always like this at all. The brainteaser crap spread out from the likes of Microsoft, followed by the whiteboarding a little later.
pnw_hazor 8y ago
Think of the type of person that would suffer through this type of indignation. And, the type of person the gleefully puts people through this kind of hazing. Sounds like perfect formula for building toxic workplaces full of people with personality disorders.
- pinewurst 8y ago
  That's why I'm not a software developer any more, even though I greatly enjoy the creative aspects of the work.
- s73v3r_ 8y ago
  No, that's not entirely right. Many of us that hate it and don't want anything to do with it still endure it, because the alternative is not getting a job.
Timmah 8y ago
It happens because the types of problems software engineers face are random and require active engagement and creativity to solve. There's no book that you can read that says "if the program crashes, try these things". Yes there are basics but theres no real formula that always leads to the solution. Each program is unique enough that you have to study the internals of how it works and then test hypotheses about the root cause. In engines, they all follow the same predefined models. Software does have "models" but most people don't use them or they blend models together and don't document how they work. So we end up with having to solve many problems on the fly. Not everyone can do this (crucially, even people with cs degrees) , so to avoid hiring people who can't, they try to test for the ability during the interview. This is fraught with an entire slew of issues. Some of which are non-technical people asking the questions, applicants sharing the answers and gaming the system, or as the article says, sadistic interviewers that enjoy the feeling of power. To date, nobody has found a universally effective system to hire good programmers.
- gaius 8y ago
  There's no book that you can read that says "if the program crashes, try these things". Here you go: http://www.network-theory.co.uk/valgrind/manual/ http://www.network-theory.co.uk/valgrind/manual/
- andrewprock 8y ago
  'There's no book that you can read that says "if the program crashes, try these things".' You are talking to a mechanic. This makes up a huge fraction of their job. On the flip side, cars usually come with design documents, testing tools, and standards. Software only wishes it could be so organized.
pvg 8y ago
It happens in part because large, very successful organizations adopt it and then it spreads as a cultural practice. Microsoft (way back) and Google (back, but less way) were infamous for this. It'd be like if you heard at F1 teams, mechanics have to disassemble and reassemble a vintage carburetor blindfolded and decided to try it with your applicants. There are also lots and lots of places, large and small, who never adopted that sort of nonsense.
01100011 8y ago
IME, it happens more at 'pop-tech' companies where engineers are lining up for jobs. At normal tech companies where they're just trying to solve problems and make money, it seems to happen a lot less. The latter companies generally just want to see if you're not an idiot, that your resume is correct, and that you're not an asshole.

pinewurst 8y ago

As a long time tech person, it wasn't always like this at all. The brainteaser crap spread out from the likes of Microsoft, followed by the whiteboarding a little later.

pnw_hazor 8y ago

Think of the type of person that would suffer through this type of indignation. And, the type of person the gleefully puts people through this kind of hazing. Sounds like perfect formula for building toxic workplaces full of people with personality disorders.

pinewurst 8y ago
That's why I'm not a software developer any more, even though I greatly enjoy the creative aspects of the work.
s73v3r_ 8y ago
No, that's not entirely right. Many of us that hate it and don't want anything to do with it still endure it, because the alternative is not getting a job.

Timmah 8y ago

It happens because the types of problems software engineers face are random and require active engagement and creativity to solve. There's no book that you can read that says "if the program crashes, try these things". Yes there are basics but theres no real formula that always leads to the solution. Each program is unique enough that you have to study the internals of how it works and then test hypotheses about the root cause. In engines, they all follow the same predefined models. Software does have "models" but most people don't use them or they blend models together and don't document how they work. So we end up with having to solve many problems on the fly. Not everyone can do this (crucially, even people with cs degrees) , so to avoid hiring people who can't, they try to test for the ability during the interview. This is fraught with an entire slew of issues. Some of which are non-technical people asking the questions, applicants sharing the answers and gaming the system, or as the article says, sadistic interviewers that enjoy the feeling of power. To date, nobody has found a universally effective system to hire good programmers.

gaius 8y ago
There's no book that you can read that says "if the program crashes, try these things". Here you go: http://www.network-theory.co.uk/valgrind/manual/ http://www.network-theory.co.uk/valgrind/manual/
andrewprock 8y ago
'There's no book that you can read that says "if the program crashes, try these things".' You are talking to a mechanic. This makes up a huge fraction of their job. On the flip side, cars usually come with design documents, testing tools, and standards. Software only wishes it could be so organized.

pvg 8y ago

It happens in part because large, very successful organizations adopt it and then it spreads as a cultural practice. Microsoft (way back) and Google (back, but less way) were infamous for this. It'd be like if you heard at F1 teams, mechanics have to disassemble and reassemble a vintage carburetor blindfolded and decided to try it with your applicants. There are also lots and lots of places, large and small, who never adopted that sort of nonsense.

01100011 8y ago

IME, it happens more at 'pop-tech' companies where engineers are lining up for jobs. At normal tech companies where they're just trying to solve problems and make money, it seems to happen a lot less. The latter companies generally just want to see if you're not an idiot, that your resume is correct, and that you're not an asshole.