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I'm surprised no one is discussing how unethical Zerodium is. Selling undisclosed vulnerabilities to the government for a tool designed to protect users from go

I'm surprised no one is discussing how unethical Zerodium is. Selling undisclosed vulnerabilities to the government for a tool designed to protect users from government oppression is about as unethical as you can be.

djsumdog 8y ago
It's pretty common practice. I was at a panel discussion at Ruxcon 2012 where selling exploits was brought up. Ranty Ben talked about selling exploits was how he made a living. The original/official upload of the panel discussion use to be here, but it's been taken down since. :( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlJ1DQdjVHM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlJ1DQdjVHM
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gizmo385 8y ago
Can you really call TOR a tool to "protect users from government oppression" when the project itself is majority-funded by the US Department of Defense?
- skygazer 8y ago
  Indeed you can, so long as you assume governments (and countries) aren't fungible.
- brokensegue 8y ago
  i thought it was the state dept?
- valarauca1 8y ago
  Yes you can. You just need to accept that the US Government's agenda of regime change in Vietnam, China, Iran, Cuba, Egypt, Venezuela, North Korea, Belarus, Russia, Ukraine, and Turkey is the correct course of action of the continuing development of international human rights. Also it helps to ignore any chance that there could a majority of the population who sees their government's action as necessary, just, or even acceptable. They're simply wrong and uninformed due to the oppression of their government. Western European liberal capitalist representative democracy is the only successful government which stands the test of time, we have nearly 200 years of data to support this, every other model by comparison simply doesn't work.
  - EthanHeilman 8y ago
    >You just need to accept that the US Government's agenda of regime change in Vietnam, China, Iran, Cuba, Egypt, Venezuela, North Korea, Belarus, Russia, Ukraine, and Turkey is the correct course of action I would like to see some citations that the US is pursuing regime change in Vietnam, Egypt and Ukraine. The US is a direct supporter of both the Egyptian and Ukrainian governments and on fairly decent terms with the government of Vietnam. >Also it helps to ignore any chance that there could a majority of the population who sees their government's action as necessary, just, or even acceptable. They're simply wrong and uninformed due to the oppression of their government. How do you gauge the support for censorship within non-democracies like North Korea especially when opposition to censorship may be brutally punished? I'm not saying that the population of North Korea is anti-censorship, I don't know what they believe. I'm curious how you arrived at the conclusion that they are pro-censorship.
    - valarauca1 8y ago
      To your first point. The goal of TOR is to subvert local attempts to control internet access. Generally this takes the form of censoring pro-western internet views as the internet in its more open access form the internet is a product of the western hegemony and its filled with praises for the western hegemony's polices and its propaganda. Attempts made by Governments to censor the external internet, and attempts made by those outside of the government cannot escape the political elements of their actions. The goal is either the preservation of the current regime, or the change/overthrow of the regime/party/structure all political actions boil down this. In light of these facts. The diplomatic relationships effectively serve as a short term tools, while projects like TOR are long term tools. The former exists for PR, and making concrete treaties. The later exists for building political divisions over longer periods of time which can trigger national instability and crises. See: Arab Spring. How do you gauge the support for censorship within non democracies like North Korea especially when opposition to censorship may be brutally punished? DPRK regularly has multi-party elections so I think we could gauge how the people vote?
      - EthanHeilman 8y ago
tedunangst 8y ago
What would the discussion look like, besides finger wagging and hand wringing? Is there something interesting to be said?
mr_overalls 8y ago
I agree with you, but I suppose I'm just unsurprised by what shady things people and companies will do for money.

djsumdog 8y ago

It's pretty common practice. I was at a panel discussion at Ruxcon 2012 where selling exploits was brought up. Ranty Ben talked about selling exploits was how he made a living. The original/official upload of the panel discussion use to be here, but it's been taken down since. :( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlJ1DQdjVHM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlJ1DQdjVHM

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gizmo385 8y ago

Can you really call TOR a tool to "protect users from government oppression" when the project itself is majority-funded by the US Department of Defense?

skygazer 8y ago
Indeed you can, so long as you assume governments (and countries) aren't fungible.
brokensegue 8y ago
i thought it was the state dept?
valarauca1 8y ago
Yes you can. You just need to accept that the US Government's agenda of regime change in Vietnam, China, Iran, Cuba, Egypt, Venezuela, North Korea, Belarus, Russia, Ukraine, and Turkey is the correct course of action of the continuing development of international human rights. Also it helps to ignore any chance that there could a majority of the population who sees their government's action as necessary, just, or even acceptable. They're simply wrong and uninformed due to the oppression of their government. Western European liberal capitalist representative democracy is the only successful government which stands the test of time, we have nearly 200 years of data to support this, every other model by comparison simply doesn't work.
- EthanHeilman 8y ago
  >You just need to accept that the US Government's agenda of regime change in Vietnam, China, Iran, Cuba, Egypt, Venezuela, North Korea, Belarus, Russia, Ukraine, and Turkey is the correct course of action I would like to see some citations that the US is pursuing regime change in Vietnam, Egypt and Ukraine. The US is a direct supporter of both the Egyptian and Ukrainian governments and on fairly decent terms with the government of Vietnam. >Also it helps to ignore any chance that there could a majority of the population who sees their government's action as necessary, just, or even acceptable. They're simply wrong and uninformed due to the oppression of their government. How do you gauge the support for censorship within non-democracies like North Korea especially when opposition to censorship may be brutally punished? I'm not saying that the population of North Korea is anti-censorship, I don't know what they believe. I'm curious how you arrived at the conclusion that they are pro-censorship.
  - valarauca1 8y ago
    To your first point. The goal of TOR is to subvert local attempts to control internet access. Generally this takes the form of censoring pro-western internet views as the internet in its more open access form the internet is a product of the western hegemony and its filled with praises for the western hegemony's polices and its propaganda. Attempts made by Governments to censor the external internet, and attempts made by those outside of the government cannot escape the political elements of their actions. The goal is either the preservation of the current regime, or the change/overthrow of the regime/party/structure all political actions boil down this. In light of these facts. The diplomatic relationships effectively serve as a short term tools, while projects like TOR are long term tools. The former exists for PR, and making concrete treaties. The later exists for building political divisions over longer periods of time which can trigger national instability and crises. See: Arab Spring. How do you gauge the support for censorship within non democracies like North Korea especially when opposition to censorship may be brutally punished? DPRK regularly has multi-party elections so I think we could gauge how the people vote?
    - EthanHeilman 8y ago

tedunangst 8y ago

What would the discussion look like, besides finger wagging and hand wringing? Is there something interesting to be said?

mr_overalls 8y ago

I agree with you, but I suppose I'm just unsurprised by what shady things people and companies will do for money.