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Wow, and this one is a false analogy. Just because one is from America and the other is from Mexico doesn't mean that they've been the sole affectors of their r

Wow, and this one is a false analogy. Just because one is from America and the other is from Mexico doesn't mean that they've been the sole affectors of their respective countries' welfares, or that the current (good or bad) state of their countries is a direct result of their actions. What is this, fallacy friday?

bilbo0s 16y ago
I was thinking it was fallacy friday too. I think when people debate things like Charity, they take leave of logic.
- lzw 16y ago
  I think the leave of logic is to reject economics and just believe in something for ideological reasons. Slim is making an economic point. Part of the reason there is no end of poverty in this US is due to the "War on Poverty" which destroyed the charity system (via government takeover of welfare programs) and has inhibited job creation (via government regulation, taxation and inflation.) We were well on our way to ending poverty in this country before the New Deal was done to us.
jshen 16y ago
Mexico has virtually no safety net, a fraction of redistribution of wealth for social good such as infrastructure and education, etc Using taxes for laying a foundation that provides greater opportunity for society in general is very similar to doing it with charity. Not doing it is very similar to saying, "leave it to the private sector"
- lzw 16y ago
  It is "very similar" in the way that buying a meal at mcdonalds is "very similar" to being mugged. In one case you do it voluntarily and the people involved are incentivized to do it efficiently.... and in the other case you do it at gun point and the person involved has no incentive to spend the money efficiently.
  - jshen 16y ago
    i disagree with the premise that the only motivation people have is personal greed. I disagree with the depiction of taxation is a mugging, even libertarians want government when push comes to shove. Afghanistan is what it's like with no real government, and no one is for that. Even libertarians want the government to put a gun to your head to enforce contract law!
    - lzw 16y ago
      I never said the only motivation people have is personal greed. Taxation is literally a mugging. And you are in error to assume that governments cannot exist without mugging. Businesses provide services and charge for them. A government could do this as well. don't speak for libertarians if you aren't one. If you are one, you've failed to apply the zero aggression principle. You also seem to fail to distinguish between using violence defensively against an agressor, which is moral, and using violence offensively to steal from someone (eg: taxation) which is immoral.
      - jshen 16y ago
        So you believe there should be no government? We have many examples of this throughout modern history. They were all shit holes. Every country on this planet that is a decent place to live has a strong central government. QED

bilbo0s 16y ago

I was thinking it was fallacy friday too. I think when people debate things like Charity, they take leave of logic.

lzw 16y ago
I think the leave of logic is to reject economics and just believe in something for ideological reasons. Slim is making an economic point. Part of the reason there is no end of poverty in this US is due to the "War on Poverty" which destroyed the charity system (via government takeover of welfare programs) and has inhibited job creation (via government regulation, taxation and inflation.) We were well on our way to ending poverty in this country before the New Deal was done to us.

jshen 16y ago

Mexico has virtually no safety net, a fraction of redistribution of wealth for social good such as infrastructure and education, etc Using taxes for laying a foundation that provides greater opportunity for society in general is very similar to doing it with charity. Not doing it is very similar to saying, "leave it to the private sector"

lzw 16y ago
It is "very similar" in the way that buying a meal at mcdonalds is "very similar" to being mugged. In one case you do it voluntarily and the people involved are incentivized to do it efficiently.... and in the other case you do it at gun point and the person involved has no incentive to spend the money efficiently.
- jshen 16y ago
  i disagree with the premise that the only motivation people have is personal greed. I disagree with the depiction of taxation is a mugging, even libertarians want government when push comes to shove. Afghanistan is what it's like with no real government, and no one is for that. Even libertarians want the government to put a gun to your head to enforce contract law!
  - lzw 16y ago
    I never said the only motivation people have is personal greed. Taxation is literally a mugging. And you are in error to assume that governments cannot exist without mugging. Businesses provide services and charge for them. A government could do this as well. don't speak for libertarians if you aren't one. If you are one, you've failed to apply the zero aggression principle. You also seem to fail to distinguish between using violence defensively against an agressor, which is moral, and using violence offensively to steal from someone (eg: taxation) which is immoral.
    - jshen 16y ago
      So you believe there should be no government? We have many examples of this throughout modern history. They were all shit holes. Every country on this planet that is a decent place to live has a strong central government. QED