3 ms·

That and the richer you are the less likely you are to eat fast food, which reinforces your point about unequal recovery further.

mikepurvis 8y ago
I could definitely see a "shrinking middle class" argument here— poor people are cooking at home and rich people are eating out at nice restaurants— fast food is set up to serve a demographic that's just not as prominent as it was 10-20 years ago.
- bluGill 8y ago
  I would suggest the middle class have figured out that fast food is bad - bad for your health, doesn't taste good, and is more expensive than cooking at home. Thus they are cooking at home even if they could afford to eat out.
  - jimmaswell 8y ago
    Doesn't taste good? That's a matter of opinion. I love fast food. It's not necessarily more expensive than home cooking. A value menu cheeseburger at McDonald's is $1[1]. First result on google[2] says ground beef, 100% beef, per lb. is $3.75. The McDonald's cheeseburger's patty has a weight of 1.6oz or .1lbs, which of the aforementioned ground beef would cost $0.375. Tomato is estimated at $0.08 cents per slice, buns at $0.41 per bun, and lettuce at $0.02 for a leaf[4]. The slice of cheese is estimated at $0.29[5]. .375 + .08 + .41 + .02 + .29 = 1.175. So the homemade burger costs more not even accounting for the opportunity cost of the time to make it, the fact that you're probably not going to use all those ingredients and eventually throw some of them out, gas/electric for the stove, and possible butter/vegetable oil. Not that it isn't worth it to make homemade burgers - they're definitely better than McDonald's, especially if you get local grass fed beef, but I like the unique taste of fast food restaurants and the economies of scale work in their favor to make things cheap, sometimes cheaper than cooking it yourself. And on health, I don't see how the McDonald's burger is any worse for you than a homecooked one. McDonald's one probably has less grease. Maybe beef quality, but I'm not sure quality of beef has a direct impact on healthiness. 1: https://www.fastfoodmenuprices.com/mcdonalds-prices/ https://www.fastfoodmenuprices.com/mcdonalds-prices/ 2: https://www.bls.gov/regions/mid-atlantic/data/AverageRetailFoodAndEnergyPrices_USandMidwest_Table.htm https://www.bls.gov/regions/mid-atlantic/data/AverageRetailF... 3: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_McDonald%27s_products https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_McDonald%27s_products 4: https://www.aol.com/2011/03/01/savings-experiment-the-great-burger-cook-off-eating-out-vs/ https://www.aol.com/2011/03/01/savings-experiment-the-great-... 5: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-exactly-how-much-youre-overpaying-for-that-slice-of-cheese-on-your-hamburger-2017-04-05 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-exactly-how-much-you...
    - mikepurvis 8y ago
      I'm not sure it's fair to compare a very specific food item which enjoys massive economies of scale when prepared industrially the McDonald's hamburger is. Like, of course a homemade hamburger of that type is going to cost more and take a bunch of time— when I make hamburgers at home, I make them from scratch including baking my own buns, but the result is not a $1 McDonalds style burger, it's something that would be $20+ at a gastropub. More realistic would be to compare the food value derived from a $1 McDonalds hamburger with what $1 can buy at a discount/bulk grocery store in dried beans, sweet potatoes, onions, and other high bang-for-buck items.
- village-idiot 8y ago
  Typically the poor don’t cook at home, they subsist on very cheap junk food available at gas stations and similar. Cooking takes time, some skill, and access to raw ingredients. This is very hard if you’re overworked and live in a food desert.
  - dsfyu404ed 8y ago
    >Typically the poor don’t cook at home, they subsist on very cheap junk food available at gas stations and similar Typically they do. Poor people aren't idiots. They know that prepared store food is grossly overpriced compared to a similar meal they assemble themselves and seek to avoid it as much as possible without spending too much time/effort on meal prep. They usually manage to drag themselves to Walmart or the local supermarket every 1-2 weeks. Even if you have to drag your ass to some far away supermarket because it's the only one open after you get home from work and get 3hr of sleep that night you'll still do it because of the huge cost reduction compared to prepared food or whatever your local convenience store has. You'll buy the same bunch of things every time because over time you figure out a bunch of relatively low effort and low cost meals and then stick to them. Lunch or breakfast will probably be the same thing every day and you'll skip the other. They buy gas station sandwiches and junk food more than the rich because when your menu is the same boring things on a 2wk cycle so it's a nice, low mental effort, way to shake things up from time to time. The home cooked meals poor people eat are just far less balanced than ideal because they're more skewed toward ease of prep and cost than what rich people eat. Instead of a salad they'll bring a PB&J and a few Oreos to work. Something like (microwave) baked potatoes and chicken nuggets, maybe with a vegetable side (or something similarly imbalanced but cheap) will probably be on the menu at least one night a week. "Food deserts" are a problem but less of a problem than they seem to be because what rich people think poor people should be eating and what poor people think they should be eating are vastly different.
  - specialist 8y ago
    The food desert phenomenon really bugs me. But I do have hope the pendulum will swing back. The whole paleo thing. What I jokingly call the "troglodiet". Beans, wild rice, big leafy greens. Much less meat, dairy, starchy carbs. It's weird that cheaper is more healthy. I really only need a pressure cooker, cutting board, knives, a few bowls, some storage. I've unloaded most everything else. I'm basically camping at home. But I had to get more wealthy to even become aware of these options, choices.
- jimmaswell 8y ago
  I'd never stop having fast food no matter how rich I was. I've been to fancy restaurants - they're largely a scam. Once had some special aged $100 steak that didn't even taste as good as a $12 steak from the grocery store cooked by myself. Fast food chains have unique flavors to them that you just can't get anywhere else that I'll always want to go back to.
a_hypotehsis 8y ago
Also possible explanation: the quality of home-cooked meals and the ease of making them may have greatly increased since the '08 crisis. Proposed mechanism: The Great Recession forced people to cook at home out of financial necessity. Home-chefs' skill and confidence increased (human capital). Rich-media internet video sites provided step-by-step visual instructions (lowered barriers to entry). People bought knives and slow cookers and avocado slicers (capital investment). I sure wouldn't want to compete against that hypothetical! ...I wonder if there is any literature on this topic (would love a pointer!)

mikepurvis 8y ago

I could definitely see a "shrinking middle class" argument here— poor people are cooking at home and rich people are eating out at nice restaurants— fast food is set up to serve a demographic that's just not as prominent as it was 10-20 years ago.

bluGill 8y ago
I would suggest the middle class have figured out that fast food is bad - bad for your health, doesn't taste good, and is more expensive than cooking at home. Thus they are cooking at home even if they could afford to eat out.
- jimmaswell 8y ago
  Doesn't taste good? That's a matter of opinion. I love fast food. It's not necessarily more expensive than home cooking. A value menu cheeseburger at McDonald's is $1[1]. First result on google[2] says ground beef, 100% beef, per lb. is $3.75. The McDonald's cheeseburger's patty has a weight of 1.6oz or .1lbs, which of the aforementioned ground beef would cost $0.375. Tomato is estimated at $0.08 cents per slice, buns at $0.41 per bun, and lettuce at $0.02 for a leaf[4]. The slice of cheese is estimated at $0.29[5]. .375 + .08 + .41 + .02 + .29 = 1.175. So the homemade burger costs more not even accounting for the opportunity cost of the time to make it, the fact that you're probably not going to use all those ingredients and eventually throw some of them out, gas/electric for the stove, and possible butter/vegetable oil. Not that it isn't worth it to make homemade burgers - they're definitely better than McDonald's, especially if you get local grass fed beef, but I like the unique taste of fast food restaurants and the economies of scale work in their favor to make things cheap, sometimes cheaper than cooking it yourself. And on health, I don't see how the McDonald's burger is any worse for you than a homecooked one. McDonald's one probably has less grease. Maybe beef quality, but I'm not sure quality of beef has a direct impact on healthiness. 1: https://www.fastfoodmenuprices.com/mcdonalds-prices/ https://www.fastfoodmenuprices.com/mcdonalds-prices/ 2: https://www.bls.gov/regions/mid-atlantic/data/AverageRetailFoodAndEnergyPrices_USandMidwest_Table.htm https://www.bls.gov/regions/mid-atlantic/data/AverageRetailF... 3: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_McDonald%27s_products https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_McDonald%27s_products 4: https://www.aol.com/2011/03/01/savings-experiment-the-great-burger-cook-off-eating-out-vs/ https://www.aol.com/2011/03/01/savings-experiment-the-great-... 5: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-exactly-how-much-youre-overpaying-for-that-slice-of-cheese-on-your-hamburger-2017-04-05 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-exactly-how-much-you...
  - mikepurvis 8y ago
    I'm not sure it's fair to compare a very specific food item which enjoys massive economies of scale when prepared industrially the McDonald's hamburger is. Like, of course a homemade hamburger of that type is going to cost more and take a bunch of time— when I make hamburgers at home, I make them from scratch including baking my own buns, but the result is not a $1 McDonalds style burger, it's something that would be $20+ at a gastropub. More realistic would be to compare the food value derived from a $1 McDonalds hamburger with what $1 can buy at a discount/bulk grocery store in dried beans, sweet potatoes, onions, and other high bang-for-buck items.
village-idiot 8y ago
Typically the poor don’t cook at home, they subsist on very cheap junk food available at gas stations and similar. Cooking takes time, some skill, and access to raw ingredients. This is very hard if you’re overworked and live in a food desert.
- dsfyu404ed 8y ago
  >Typically the poor don’t cook at home, they subsist on very cheap junk food available at gas stations and similar Typically they do. Poor people aren't idiots. They know that prepared store food is grossly overpriced compared to a similar meal they assemble themselves and seek to avoid it as much as possible without spending too much time/effort on meal prep. They usually manage to drag themselves to Walmart or the local supermarket every 1-2 weeks. Even if you have to drag your ass to some far away supermarket because it's the only one open after you get home from work and get 3hr of sleep that night you'll still do it because of the huge cost reduction compared to prepared food or whatever your local convenience store has. You'll buy the same bunch of things every time because over time you figure out a bunch of relatively low effort and low cost meals and then stick to them. Lunch or breakfast will probably be the same thing every day and you'll skip the other. They buy gas station sandwiches and junk food more than the rich because when your menu is the same boring things on a 2wk cycle so it's a nice, low mental effort, way to shake things up from time to time. The home cooked meals poor people eat are just far less balanced than ideal because they're more skewed toward ease of prep and cost than what rich people eat. Instead of a salad they'll bring a PB&J and a few Oreos to work. Something like (microwave) baked potatoes and chicken nuggets, maybe with a vegetable side (or something similarly imbalanced but cheap) will probably be on the menu at least one night a week. "Food deserts" are a problem but less of a problem than they seem to be because what rich people think poor people should be eating and what poor people think they should be eating are vastly different.
- specialist 8y ago
  The food desert phenomenon really bugs me. But I do have hope the pendulum will swing back. The whole paleo thing. What I jokingly call the "troglodiet". Beans, wild rice, big leafy greens. Much less meat, dairy, starchy carbs. It's weird that cheaper is more healthy. I really only need a pressure cooker, cutting board, knives, a few bowls, some storage. I've unloaded most everything else. I'm basically camping at home. But I had to get more wealthy to even become aware of these options, choices.
jimmaswell 8y ago
I'd never stop having fast food no matter how rich I was. I've been to fancy restaurants - they're largely a scam. Once had some special aged $100 steak that didn't even taste as good as a $12 steak from the grocery store cooked by myself. Fast food chains have unique flavors to them that you just can't get anywhere else that I'll always want to go back to.

a_hypotehsis 8y ago

Also possible explanation: the quality of home-cooked meals and the ease of making them may have greatly increased since the '08 crisis. Proposed mechanism: The Great Recession forced people to cook at home out of financial necessity. Home-chefs' skill and confidence increased (human capital). Rich-media internet video sites provided step-by-step visual instructions (lowered barriers to entry). People bought knives and slow cookers and avocado slicers (capital investment). I sure wouldn't want to compete against that hypothetical! ...I wonder if there is any literature on this topic (would love a pointer!)