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we also don't need to be overly sensitive to prudish sensibilities and people who can't have a laugh. You slipped in an unfounded claim. It is possible to disa

we also don't need to be overly sensitive to prudish sensibilities and people who can't have a laugh. You slipped in an unfounded claim. It is possible to disapprove of showing T&A on a slide without being prudish. I also like human bodies and spent part of my upbringing in a clothing-optional environment. I don't self-identify as a prude, I self identify as someone who has empathy for other people. I'm comfortable discussing sexuality when sexuality is the topic. Sexuality is not the topic in a programming conference or forum. We bring other topics in as metaphors or similes to illustrate a technical point by choice. And it's our responsibility to consider all of the ramifications of our choice when we make it. You know about "Godwin's Law," which has evolved into a dictum that comparing something to National Socialism ends the argument. As a responsible adult, I think about that before I compare anything to National Socialism. In the case of women's bodies and sexuality, bringing this up in a professional setting is wrong. Not because we aren't sexual beings, but because we're supposed to be able to rise above that when circumstances demand. In the case of sexuality, the male-centric stuff being discussed by the OP creates an environment where many women feel that their sexuality is a distraction to their contribution as colleagues. If you walk up to a woman at work and say that sexuality is a big part of life and part of what makes it worth living, you are creating a poisoned workplace environment. Donny, what does any of that have to do with Vietnam? Finally, who are you or I to say what should or shouldn't discourage women from doing anything? That is blame the victim thinking writ large. It is enough for me that it does discourage some women. Is the freedom to be juvenile more valuable than the contributions of those who don't want to be a part of a community that disregards their feelings?

aneth 16y ago
> who are you or I to say what should or shouldn't discourage women from doing anything? Those who are truly motivated are not discouraged by minor indirect impediments. The cage of political correctness and over-sensitivity is far more stifling to innovation than the minority of folks who are discouraged from entering a profession by this sort of thing. It is the source of bureaucracy, drones, intrusive HR, politics, and all the other things we love to hate about big corporations where no one can say what they think. I agree that personalized sexuality can be a serious distraction and should be generally avoided in the workplace, however general bantering and references to sexuality are just that.
- raganwald 16y ago
  Do you espouse the same views with respect to colour and religion? Am I being overly sensitive if I quit a job where people routinely draw attention to the natural fact that some people, myself included, are not "White?"
  - aneth 16y ago
    There is a difference between being singled out for being different on a regular basis, and someone bringing up basic facts of life. One situation where I might quit - an overly religious environment. I would not like constant references to Jesus and religious judgement around me, however it's not my choice whether my co-workers want that. I can ignore it, fight it, or quit. If I am not a good fit for the company culture, I need to figure out how to deal with it. Same if the company is obsessed with sports betting, video games, soap operas, or any of the other things I prefer not to be around me.

aneth 16y ago

> who are you or I to say what should or shouldn't discourage women from doing anything? Those who are truly motivated are not discouraged by minor indirect impediments. The cage of political correctness and over-sensitivity is far more stifling to innovation than the minority of folks who are discouraged from entering a profession by this sort of thing. It is the source of bureaucracy, drones, intrusive HR, politics, and all the other things we love to hate about big corporations where no one can say what they think. I agree that personalized sexuality can be a serious distraction and should be generally avoided in the workplace, however general bantering and references to sexuality are just that.

raganwald 16y ago
Do you espouse the same views with respect to colour and religion? Am I being overly sensitive if I quit a job where people routinely draw attention to the natural fact that some people, myself included, are not "White?"
- aneth 16y ago
  There is a difference between being singled out for being different on a regular basis, and someone bringing up basic facts of life. One situation where I might quit - an overly religious environment. I would not like constant references to Jesus and religious judgement around me, however it's not my choice whether my co-workers want that. I can ignore it, fight it, or quit. If I am not a good fit for the company culture, I need to figure out how to deal with it. Same if the company is obsessed with sports betting, video games, soap operas, or any of the other things I prefer not to be around me.