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I personally do not feel that there is a correlation between sex and maths skills. Its the stereotypes that result in girls not actively pursuing maths related

I personally do not feel that there is a correlation between sex and maths skills. Its the stereotypes that result in girls not actively pursuing maths related courses. If provided the right education and motivation, anyone can be good at any subject. In India, for example, where the students have no choice but to learn predefined syllabus, girls do pretty well in Maths.

borisk 16y ago
Looking at the winners of this year Indian National Mathematical Olympiad ( http://www.isical.ac.in/~rmo/inmo10_list.pdf http://www.isical.ac.in/~rmo/inmo10_list.pdf ) there are 2 girls and 33 boys.
- TheSOB88 16y ago
  Still, that's such a high level that societal expectations probably come into play there as well. How socially equality is India?
CWuestefeld 16y ago
I personally do not feel that there is a correlation I'm sorry that I'm about to sound rude, but... For this kind of question it really doesn't matter what any of us feel. Our values, morals, aesthetics, etc. simply have no bearing on the truth of the matter. And none of us has sufficient data points (rigorous, untainted, and unprejudiced) to form a model that has any validity. We really only have two choices: (1) say "I don't care", and ignore the debate; or (2) read the study, then criticize methodological flaws if any, else deal with the results.
- mayutana 16y ago
  There is a third choice: "I care, but please bring a better case-study". As stated above, the gist of my argument is that all are born equal, it is the society and the stereotypes that shape them.
  - CWuestefeld 16y ago
    That's not a third choice. If you can show that the methodology of the study fails to account for this, then you've got a case, which I accounted for. But when it simply doesn't match your "feeling", well, I'm sorry, but that just doesn't matter.
- mayutana 16y ago
  By the way, I did not disagree with the results of the study. I agreed to it by stating my personal feeling instead of going by the article, since the article didn't mention the study in detail.
VladRussian 16y ago
> Its the stereotypes that result in girls not actively pursuing maths related courses. have you ever thought what is the root of these stereotypes? Historical oppression by males? Historically, males have had no problem "delegating" chores to women. Why producing tedious mathematical proofs wasn't considered a chore (what it in many cases is) and wasn't "delegated" to women? > where the students have no choice but to learn predefined syllabus, girls do pretty well in Maths. exactly. But when it is time for a real, not predefined, stuff and you have little to no guidance ... There is a reason 2 sexes exist. Males or females are no better than each other. The Nature have no problem bringing together 2 sexes in 1 body at the pure biological level. It is the behavioral and mental differences of the sexes that make the 2-sex species much stronger than otherwise.
- araneae 16y ago
  Well, historically women were discouraged from doing anything intellectual. I read a biography of Ada Lovelace and she regularly corresponded with a medical doctor who in his letters advised her to not to so much math. It was believed that thinking too much would weaken the body. Good thing she didn't listen! In adulthood, she also corresponded with her childhood math tutor. He wrote to her that his daughter was precocious at math, and he feared it would do her damage, so he actively discouraged his daughter... so much so that his wife complained to him that the daughter was now quite intellectually deficient. Ada Lovelace only got where she was because she was raised by her mother who hated her poet father Lord Byron with such intensity that she considered it the ultimate revenge to completely prevent Ada from reading any literature, and spend all her time doing math. But most girls, like her tutor's daughter, were subject to the opposite treatment. It's not surprising that most women didn't do very much math. >There is a reason 2 sexes exist... It is the behavioral and mental differences of the sexes that make the 2-sex species much stronger than otherwise. Wow, that is the most bullshit explanation for sexual reproduction I have ever seen. The actual reason for the existence of sexual reproduction is still very much under research, but one plausible explanation is that it increases genetic diversity a la http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Queens_Hypothesis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Queens_Hypothesis It certainly has absolutely nothing to do with making the species stronger. Natural selection does not work on a species level, only on the level of an individual organism or gene. If a species is not "strong" it goes extinct.

borisk 16y ago

Looking at the winners of this year Indian National Mathematical Olympiad ( http://www.isical.ac.in/~rmo/inmo10_list.pdf http://www.isical.ac.in/~rmo/inmo10_list.pdf ) there are 2 girls and 33 boys.

TheSOB88 16y ago
Still, that's such a high level that societal expectations probably come into play there as well. How socially equality is India?

CWuestefeld 16y ago

I personally do not feel that there is a correlation I'm sorry that I'm about to sound rude, but... For this kind of question it really doesn't matter what any of us feel. Our values, morals, aesthetics, etc. simply have no bearing on the truth of the matter. And none of us has sufficient data points (rigorous, untainted, and unprejudiced) to form a model that has any validity. We really only have two choices: (1) say "I don't care", and ignore the debate; or (2) read the study, then criticize methodological flaws if any, else deal with the results.

mayutana 16y ago
There is a third choice: "I care, but please bring a better case-study". As stated above, the gist of my argument is that all are born equal, it is the society and the stereotypes that shape them.
- CWuestefeld 16y ago
  That's not a third choice. If you can show that the methodology of the study fails to account for this, then you've got a case, which I accounted for. But when it simply doesn't match your "feeling", well, I'm sorry, but that just doesn't matter.
mayutana 16y ago
By the way, I did not disagree with the results of the study. I agreed to it by stating my personal feeling instead of going by the article, since the article didn't mention the study in detail.

VladRussian 16y ago

> Its the stereotypes that result in girls not actively pursuing maths related courses. have you ever thought what is the root of these stereotypes? Historical oppression by males? Historically, males have had no problem "delegating" chores to women. Why producing tedious mathematical proofs wasn't considered a chore (what it in many cases is) and wasn't "delegated" to women? > where the students have no choice but to learn predefined syllabus, girls do pretty well in Maths. exactly. But when it is time for a real, not predefined, stuff and you have little to no guidance ... There is a reason 2 sexes exist. Males or females are no better than each other. The Nature have no problem bringing together 2 sexes in 1 body at the pure biological level. It is the behavioral and mental differences of the sexes that make the 2-sex species much stronger than otherwise.

araneae 16y ago
Well, historically women were discouraged from doing anything intellectual. I read a biography of Ada Lovelace and she regularly corresponded with a medical doctor who in his letters advised her to not to so much math. It was believed that thinking too much would weaken the body. Good thing she didn't listen! In adulthood, she also corresponded with her childhood math tutor. He wrote to her that his daughter was precocious at math, and he feared it would do her damage, so he actively discouraged his daughter... so much so that his wife complained to him that the daughter was now quite intellectually deficient. Ada Lovelace only got where she was because she was raised by her mother who hated her poet father Lord Byron with such intensity that she considered it the ultimate revenge to completely prevent Ada from reading any literature, and spend all her time doing math. But most girls, like her tutor's daughter, were subject to the opposite treatment. It's not surprising that most women didn't do very much math. >There is a reason 2 sexes exist... It is the behavioral and mental differences of the sexes that make the 2-sex species much stronger than otherwise. Wow, that is the most bullshit explanation for sexual reproduction I have ever seen. The actual reason for the existence of sexual reproduction is still very much under research, but one plausible explanation is that it increases genetic diversity a la http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Queens_Hypothesis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Queens_Hypothesis It certainly has absolutely nothing to do with making the species stronger. Natural selection does not work on a species level, only on the level of an individual organism or gene. If a species is not "strong" it goes extinct.