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> Federal law vs. state law: While the DEA was insisting on thoroughly vetting everyone who came into contact with the tiny amount of marijuana product used in

> Federal law vs. state law: While the DEA was insisting on thoroughly vetting everyone who came into contact with the tiny amount of marijuana product used in our study, the reality was that less than a mile from the hospital, anyone could walk into a boutique shop or dispensary and buy it. Why does a drug have to be legalized to be studied? If it can be purchased down the road, why are you involving the DEA at all? Is it solely in the pursuit of funding? Or will some journals not publish research if the DEA is not involved? (Legitimate question.)

carbocation 8y ago
I don't think scientists are excited about criminal charges for possession and distribution.
- stephengillie 8y ago
  Just as with video piracy, the civil disobedience to support the market is a necessary risk that supporters must be willing to make.
  - maze-le 8y ago
    It is one thing to share a movie and possibly be fined with XXX$ because of "piracy". Its quite another thing to risk your respectability, career and future research funding -- all hanging in the balance when a federal felony charge is thrust upon you.
    - stephengillie 8y ago
      Isn't piracy also a federal crime, thus the FBI warning on all non-pirated DVDs?
      - Broken_Hippo 8y ago
        Crimes have different sorts of consequences. A drug felony will usually haunt folks for life. A doctor or pharmacist will likely lose their license - even if they don't, most places won't employ them. Slews of places won't employ them after that drug charge. Some places withhold benefits and some will turn them down for housing. Yes, some of this happens with other crimes as well, but there are special restrictions for folks convicted of drug crimes in many places. Most folks caught for piracy wind up with a lawsuit instead of a felony from the government. I couldn't find numbers with a quick google search of how many folks actually got a criminal charge instead of a lawsuit, honestly - most of the articles talk about getting sued and being "guilty" in that respect. Getting sued has completely different consequences. You might not pass a background check (so you might not have your research position), but it might not affect you much. You do not have to check the "have you ever been convicted of a felony" box that is popular in many states. And so on.
        FireBeyond 8y ago
        > A doctor or pharmacist will likely lose their license - even if they don't, most places won't employ them. Yep, in my state, a simple Dept of Health Provider Credential Search (whether by public or prospective employer) will give you Enforcement Action: YES in nice big bold red type as soon as any such thing happens.
- tzakrajs 8y ago
  Good luck finding someone in these progressive bastions willing to arrest you.
  - carbocation 8y ago
    These crimes are federal, not local, so that's not relevant.
Thriptic 8y ago
Marijuana is defined as a schedule one drug by the DEA, meaning they believe it has no accepted medical value and should not be studied. Being in possession of or trying to purchase this drug for a medical study would therefore be illegal. Publishing the results would be admitting you performed a federal crime and you would be arrested. Additionally, human studies require approval by an on site or third party institutional review board prior to initiation to validate that they are ethical. It is unlikely that an IRB would approve such a study because it would be viewed as unethical and it would shift some liability to the university. Its possible to perform studies with illegal drugs that are not schedule one however. For example, cocaine is schedule 2, and I helped work on a study where we purchased cocaine legally from Sigma and administered it to animals to study something which actually had nothing to do with the stimulant effects of the drug.
- stephengillie 8y ago
  But the study would be okay if they merely interviewed individuals who purchased cannabis for their own recreation? What if these individuals were using it recreationally according to a schedule suggested by the interviewers?
  - Thriptic 8y ago
    Suggesting that study participants use a drug of unknown purity, composition, and dosing would definitely not be ok or safe. Encouraging illegal activity generally is not ok. Interviewing self-professed users without instructing them to use the drug would likely be ok but of limited value.
    - drewrv 8y ago
      I don't know about other legal states but here in Washington the purity, composition, and dose of cannabis products are highly regulated and come with standardized labels.
      - mywittyname 8y ago
bluGill 8y ago
When studying a drug for medical purposes you want to know it is pure. Down the street how knows how much active ingredient you actually get (this is the problem with herbs in general - they do not all contain the same amount of active ingredient, and it is possible something unknown in half the samples is the real active ingredient) Marijuana has been studied overseas.
- stephengillie 8y ago
  Cannabis sold in WA State lists THC and THCa percentages. Most are in the 20%-25% range. Vape cartridges are 60%-90% THC.
dsfyu404ed 8y ago
The vast majority of universities are heavily subsidized by the federal government. If the DEA doesn't like what your researchers are doing they can likely throw the book at the university in a way that gets them cut off until the issue is resolved (which can take awhile). The last place a university wants enemies is in the federal government.

carbocation 8y ago

I don't think scientists are excited about criminal charges for possession and distribution.

stephengillie 8y ago
Just as with video piracy, the civil disobedience to support the market is a necessary risk that supporters must be willing to make.
- maze-le 8y ago
  It is one thing to share a movie and possibly be fined with XXX$ because of "piracy". Its quite another thing to risk your respectability, career and future research funding -- all hanging in the balance when a federal felony charge is thrust upon you.
  - stephengillie 8y ago
    Isn't piracy also a federal crime, thus the FBI warning on all non-pirated DVDs?
    - Broken_Hippo 8y ago
      Crimes have different sorts of consequences. A drug felony will usually haunt folks for life. A doctor or pharmacist will likely lose their license - even if they don't, most places won't employ them. Slews of places won't employ them after that drug charge. Some places withhold benefits and some will turn them down for housing. Yes, some of this happens with other crimes as well, but there are special restrictions for folks convicted of drug crimes in many places. Most folks caught for piracy wind up with a lawsuit instead of a felony from the government. I couldn't find numbers with a quick google search of how many folks actually got a criminal charge instead of a lawsuit, honestly - most of the articles talk about getting sued and being "guilty" in that respect. Getting sued has completely different consequences. You might not pass a background check (so you might not have your research position), but it might not affect you much. You do not have to check the "have you ever been convicted of a felony" box that is popular in many states. And so on.
      - FireBeyond 8y ago
        > A doctor or pharmacist will likely lose their license - even if they don't, most places won't employ them. Yep, in my state, a simple Dept of Health Provider Credential Search (whether by public or prospective employer) will give you Enforcement Action: YES in nice big bold red type as soon as any such thing happens.
tzakrajs 8y ago
Good luck finding someone in these progressive bastions willing to arrest you.
- carbocation 8y ago
  These crimes are federal, not local, so that's not relevant.

Thriptic 8y ago

Marijuana is defined as a schedule one drug by the DEA, meaning they believe it has no accepted medical value and should not be studied. Being in possession of or trying to purchase this drug for a medical study would therefore be illegal. Publishing the results would be admitting you performed a federal crime and you would be arrested. Additionally, human studies require approval by an on site or third party institutional review board prior to initiation to validate that they are ethical. It is unlikely that an IRB would approve such a study because it would be viewed as unethical and it would shift some liability to the university. Its possible to perform studies with illegal drugs that are not schedule one however. For example, cocaine is schedule 2, and I helped work on a study where we purchased cocaine legally from Sigma and administered it to animals to study something which actually had nothing to do with the stimulant effects of the drug.

stephengillie 8y ago
But the study would be okay if they merely interviewed individuals who purchased cannabis for their own recreation? What if these individuals were using it recreationally according to a schedule suggested by the interviewers?
- Thriptic 8y ago
  Suggesting that study participants use a drug of unknown purity, composition, and dosing would definitely not be ok or safe. Encouraging illegal activity generally is not ok. Interviewing self-professed users without instructing them to use the drug would likely be ok but of limited value.
  - drewrv 8y ago
    I don't know about other legal states but here in Washington the purity, composition, and dose of cannabis products are highly regulated and come with standardized labels.
    - mywittyname 8y ago

bluGill 8y ago

When studying a drug for medical purposes you want to know it is pure. Down the street how knows how much active ingredient you actually get (this is the problem with herbs in general - they do not all contain the same amount of active ingredient, and it is possible something unknown in half the samples is the real active ingredient) Marijuana has been studied overseas.

stephengillie 8y ago
Cannabis sold in WA State lists THC and THCa percentages. Most are in the 20%-25% range. Vape cartridges are 60%-90% THC.

dsfyu404ed 8y ago

The vast majority of universities are heavily subsidized by the federal government. If the DEA doesn't like what your researchers are doing they can likely throw the book at the university in a way that gets them cut off until the issue is resolved (which can take awhile). The last place a university wants enemies is in the federal government.